*spin-off* Defining "Next-Gen"
- Thread starter XpiderMX
- Start date
That's laughable at best. It's NOT next-gen, it's current-gen console.
But the GPU in Wii U is better, isn't? Modern GPU in Wii U vs old DX9 GPU in PS360.
Any advantage?
You need to take into account overall system bottlenecks when deciding what or how to label the system. As it stands now, it's having a hard time to keep up with the PS360 systems. This should not be an issue at all for a system coming out 7 years later. A next-gen system wouldn't/shouldn't be having such troubles.
It's a Next Gen Nintendo Console.
It has a more modern architecture, improved features (for example, a better tessellation unit),
and it's at least 50% faster in flops comparison (200 vs 300/350 Gigaflops). But there are talks that the CPU is weak and now we find out that the entire system is easily bandwidth starved. It's like the Wii all over again, probably even worst. It's hard to think that in two years we will see a next-gen port to this console. Next year Samsung/Apple SoCs could be faster in any sector. The year following that, they will become fast enough to display a better graphics while streaming it wireless to the tv. Hard time for Nintendo are ahead.
Billy Idol
Legend
An interesting post from sebbbi a few months back: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1646788&postcount=15
Would have to wonder if the 32MB eDRAM changes much considering how much of it will be used for just render targets and various buffers (post-processing/offscreen/shadows etc).
At the same time, I'd wonder about the ability to handle larger assets (i.e. texture filtering, triangle raster rate) anyway. hm...
Would have to wonder if the 32MB eDRAM changes much considering how much of it will be used for just render targets and various buffers (post-processing/offscreen/shadows etc).
At the same time, I'd wonder about the ability to handle larger assets (i.e. texture filtering, triangle raster rate) anyway. hm...
Or even just a new console to replace the old one. Categorically, Wii U is a next gen console as it's the next generation of console from Nintendo. However, Nintendo have aligned themselves to a timeline some 5 years maybe behind the opposition, so a next-gen replacement Nintendo console is a technological generation behind them. In the traditions of generations following a standard advance aligned with technological progress, Wii U is thus not a next-gen console as much as a last-gen (current gen) console that's very late.
What if one of the next-gen consoles launches with 2 GBs 100 GB/s GDDR5, 64 MBs super fast eDRAM, and a big Sea Island's GPU?
In terms of 'defining' next-gen, IMHO a crude answer may simply be 4+GB of RAM.
For the WiiU? It's a console that has both been rushed, and delivered too late for it's generation.
I was reading an article about the success of Wii and I was wondering....perhaps it was too late considering its given hardwear.
But at the same time I am wondering, what if it is also too soon?
What would have happened if they worked more on the overall design of the console and came with better tablet ideas, functionalities and better hardware later on to hit with a "bang" of innovation against the PS4 and the new Xbox just like they did with the Wii?
As it is now, what can be done with the console may be limited to its hardware performance. It is mostly perceived as a PS3 with a tablet than an all new product that is different from anything else released. Unlike the Wii. The tablet unique interface is not as highlighted on the WiiU as the Wiimote was for the Wii. Its not the protagonist. Its not the main hero. Its the companion....the side kick of something not so original anymore
From a business perspective they were thinking about stimulating their sales thats why the probably couldnt wait more. This is probably the barrier they have hit.
Personally, I'm thinking:
- the new consoles to have the 'system menu is instant'.
- after voice chat/PS3 I'm sure Sony will be reserving a chunk of system resources ahead of time.
- with Kinect looking for 'dedicated processing', MS will be doing likewise.
- social networking, online game sales, background downloads.
I'd expect the next-gen consoles to reserve 0.5-1gb of RAM for their own purposes... having that located in 'super-duper RAM' seems a complete waste of money.
And then there's the growth of open-world games - GTA/skyrim et al. and a desire for even corridor shooters to become larger and less linear. (especially after the reception of MOH:warfighter/BF3 single player).
Perhaps more than anything else, if the 720/PS4 have 4GB of RAM then ports to the Wii-U become exceedingly difficult.
It's a next generation system as it's replacing Nintendo's current generation machine, the Wii.
People always think about graphics when talking about what's next generation or not
As Shifty said it depends how you define "next gen". Would you still call it next gen if they simply released an upgraded Wii that can communicate with a Nintendo tablet controller?
Yes because it's still a brand new machine built to replace another.
Well your definition then of next gen is nothing more than a replacement of an existing model regardless of capabilities and specs
Prophecy2k
Veteran
I think personally that that is non-sensical. People need to face the music. An update of old 7yr old HW with a new control gimmick is not a "new generation" of console.
By that metric you could say that the 3DS XL is the new generation of Nintendo portable consoles after the 3DS. Or the same about the PSP Go to the PSP. It's fundamentally silly and naive.
HW generations are driven by hardware, i.e. a generational leap in HW performance from the last generation to the next. Better graphics is a result of that, so is also things like physics, the ability to have open worlds, better AI etc etc. Fundamentally though its the HW that drives to move from one gen to the other.
People who naively try to assert that control interface can also be a defining driving force for HW generational update are simply those who are intent on trying to give companies like nintendo too much credit.
The Wii wasn't a full generational increase from the gen before it. Yet it succeeded commercially and existed (for a while) on its own as a separate "thing". When publishers realised there was little they could do with the thing, and Ninty couldn't be arsed to support it anymore, the console stagnated and died a horrible death. Had the Wii bee engineered as a console with sufficient HW performance to compete with other console within that generation, then it would probably still be selling now, and Ninty would have no reason to undercook WiiU and rush it out the door.
The Wii lagged far far behind current gen, and the WiiU is simply the rectification of that problem. On the other hand the WiiU is so poorly engineered and designed that it is barely capable of meeting the performance demands of current gen software. So to try to intimate from any angle that the WiiU is a next-gen console with next-gen HW performance is silly and inane.
Also, nintendo doesn't get to define what next-gen is based on the piddle they shovelled into their now dead and buried last console (Wii). There is no "next-gen for Nintendo", there is only "next-gen full stop", of which the WiiU invariably isn't.
People should face facts. The WiiU wasn't designed to compete with the next Xbox or PS4. It was designed to truly be the "Wii-HD" (its even in the name). Michael Pachter was right.
By that metric you could say that the 3DS XL is the new generation of Nintendo portable consoles after the 3DS. Or the same about the PSP Go to the PSP. It's fundamentally silly and naive.
HW generations are driven by hardware, i.e. a generational leap in HW performance from the last generation to the next. Better graphics is a result of that, so is also things like physics, the ability to have open worlds, better AI etc etc. Fundamentally though its the HW that drives to move from one gen to the other.
People who naively try to assert that control interface can also be a defining driving force for HW generational update are simply those who are intent on trying to give companies like nintendo too much credit.
The Wii wasn't a full generational increase from the gen before it. Yet it succeeded commercially and existed (for a while) on its own as a separate "thing". When publishers realised there was little they could do with the thing, and Ninty couldn't be arsed to support it anymore, the console stagnated and died a horrible death. Had the Wii bee engineered as a console with sufficient HW performance to compete with other console within that generation, then it would probably still be selling now, and Ninty would have no reason to undercook WiiU and rush it out the door.
The Wii lagged far far behind current gen, and the WiiU is simply the rectification of that problem. On the other hand the WiiU is so poorly engineered and designed that it is barely capable of meeting the performance demands of current gen software. So to try to intimate from any angle that the WiiU is a next-gen console with next-gen HW performance is silly and inane.
Also, nintendo doesn't get to define what next-gen is based on the piddle they shovelled into their now dead and buried last console (Wii). There is no "next-gen for Nintendo", there is only "next-gen full stop", of which the WiiU invariably isn't.
People should face facts. The WiiU wasn't designed to compete with the next Xbox or PS4. It was designed to truly be the "Wii-HD" (its even in the name). Michael Pachter was right.
To be exact (and I do like to be exact about definitions!
), Go and DSXL weren't replacements for their counterparts, but variations.It's not naivety. It's more open-mindness, and the ability to understand the place of interpretation and semantics in use of language. You opinion is the status quo and generalised interpretation, but far from the be and end all. It's the same issue as "what's the most powerful console". There needs to be a reference point. It's worth noting that the next generation of people is exactly the same hardware as the previous generation - the definition of 'generation' being the 'replacements' brought in. Recognising there are different interpretations is an essential part in people being understood and communicating effectively. If it's assumed everyone has the same interpretation as oneself, confusion arises. Discussing different interpretations is thus a Good Thing.
Is anyone saying otherwise? This reminds me of my poll:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=61765&highlight=wii+poll
Only 5% said Wii U would be much more capable than XB360. Whether Wii U is equal to or a little bit more or less is difficult to ascertain at this point.
- As for the Nintendo, It is next gen.
- As for the guys saying that Wii was NOT a next gen, it is. (Nintendo now being in same generation as the competition. Sounds laughable that they had one SD generation more than the others, but when you realize that they did it about 1/10th of developing costs of competition and sold over 85 million units each with real profit, There's not much left from being laughable.)
- As for the guys always waiting next gen, it is not. (as when it gets released, it is not anymore next, aka. upcoming, generation, but the one going on.)
- As for the every single other group you can generalize, yes or no and/or both. Just depending what use use to distort the available information to fit in your way of thinking.
I am not going to buy next gen. I buy a console. With next gen you can't play as it is unreachable ghost. And that's a fact without depency on make of the next gen.
- As for the guys saying that Wii was NOT a next gen, it is. (Nintendo now being in same generation as the competition. Sounds laughable that they had one SD generation more than the others, but when you realize that they did it about 1/10th of developing costs of competition and sold over 85 million units each with real profit, There's not much left from being laughable.)
- As for the guys always waiting next gen, it is not. (as when it gets released, it is not anymore next, aka. upcoming, generation, but the one going on.)
- As for the every single other group you can generalize, yes or no and/or both. Just depending what use use to distort the available information to fit in your way of thinking.
I am not going to buy next gen. I buy a console. With next gen you can't play as it is unreachable ghost. And that's a fact without depency on make of the next gen.