Sony Electronics's media processor(CELL rival) in Press Rele

Deadmeat

Banned
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200402/04-0202E/

Sony Group Executes Investment of 120 Billion Yen in Semiconductor Fabrication
Second Phase Investment by Sony to Establish Mass Production Line of 65 nanometer Process

TOKYO, JAPAN, February 2, 2004 - Sony Corporation (Sony) and Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) (together referred to as Sony Group hereinafter) announced today that following the 73 billion yen investment made in the fiscal year 2003 (ending March 2004), they would make a second phase investment of a total of approximately 120 billion yen to establish semiconductor mass production lines to build chips with 65 nanometer process.

Sony Group positions semiconductor as one of the most important technologies that would define and add values to the products. This investment for the 65 nanometer process fabrication line will be conducted as part of the previously announced 200 billion yen semiconductor investment (over three years starting from fiscal year 2003: announced on April 21, 2003) that will contribute to the manufacturing of the new microprocessor for the broadband-era, codenamed "Cell", as well as various media processors to be used for a wide array of Sony Group's next generation digital consumer electronics (CE) products and next generation computer entertainment system.

The second phase investment of approximately 120 billion yen will be used to further enhance the fabrication lines with 65 nanometer process on 300 mm wafers. The investment will be made by Sony Group to three fabrication facilities; SCEI's Fab2, a semiconductor fabrication facility in Isahaya City, Nagasaki Prefecture, IBM Corporation's (IBM) East Fishkill Fab, in New York, United States, and Toshiba Corporation's (Toshiba) newly built Oita Factory, located in Oita Prefecture.

Of the 120 billion yen, approximately 53 billion yen will be used to reinforce the fabrication line located in the clean room on the first floor in SCEI's Fab2, for the manufacturing of 65 nanometer generation high-performance LSIs such as "Cell", using SOI process technology.

Approximately 36 billion yen will be invested in IBM's East Fishkill Fab, which will likewise manufacture 65 nanometer processors using SOI process technology. As for the investment to Toshiba, combined with the investment executed in the fiscal year 2003, a total of approximately 42 billion yen (second phase investment: approximately 31 billion yen) will be invested by Sony Group to build a 65 nanometer semiconductor facility using DRAM CMOS technology. At the same time, Toshiba will make the same amount of investment to their newly built Oita Factory.

Pilot production at each fabrication facility is expected to start in the first half of the fiscal year 2005, with planned production capacity of 15000 wafers/month in total.

Sony Group works closely with Toshiba and IBM to actively pursue the development of the next generation microprocessor and the most advanced semiconductor process technology to drive the coming broadband era. The execution of the investment enables the Group to verify the process technology development results under an environment equivalent to mass production so that it could establish effective mass production systems and smoothly start up the operation once the system LSI design is completed.

Sony Group will continue to actively conduct research and development of the cutting-edge semiconductors applied for various digital CE products including CCD imaging devices and to develop high performance and easy to use products.
This is the first time Sony Electronic Corp's "CE Media Processor" is mentioned in an official press release. No, this is not CELL, Kutaragi said so himself and they would "work together".

CELL Vs "CE MP", interesting to see which one will survive...
 
CELL vs Media Engine ?

First, since you keep putting Ken Kutaragi and Sony Electronics.

Strengthening the development system for semiconductors and key devices

The Semiconductor Solutions Network Company (NC President, Ken Kutaragi) will be established to direct the Sony Group's semiconductor strategy. The objective will be to increase the ratio of semiconductors and key devices produced within the Sony group and thus add value to home and mobile electronics products.

1. Establish roadmap for digital CE products based on most advanced processors.
2. Establish a joint venture company to strengthen procurement of LCD panels.
3. Accelerate in-house development of next-generation display devices through strengthening related organization.
4. Solidify position as global leader in imaging devices by enhancing CCDs and CMOS imagers.

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200310/03-047E/


Deadmeat, face it... the man in charge in Semiconductor R&D in Sony is the man in charge of SSNC.

That man is Ken Kutaragi.

Also,

manufacturing of the new microprocessor for the broadband-era, codenamed "Cell", as well as various media processors to be used for a wide array of Sony Group's next generation digital consumer electronics (CE) products and next generation computer entertainment system.

CELL will be used in CE products, so it is CELL CE too ;).

Another thing: CELL is a scalable architecture not a generation/partiucular implementation/chip.

The PR said " various media processors" ( processors, not processor ).



CELL used alongside those processors/Media Engines ? As long as they are manufactured in Sony's own plants it is all ok.

CELL was not substituting every single IC used by Sony: the fact that it could co-exist with another processor in the system used for specific/specialized functions is not something to cry home about all scared.






This is one of the first times in which you try to be overly sensationalist by pushing waaaaaaaaaaay to far a common and pretty standard news piece.
 
Re: Sony Electronics's media processor(CELL rival) in Press

Deadmeat said:
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200402/04-0202E/

Sony Group Executes Investment of 120 Billion Yen in Semiconductor Fabrication
Second Phase Investment by Sony to Establish Mass Production Line of 65 nanometer Process

TOKYO, JAPAN, February 2, 2004 - Sony Corporation (Sony) and Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) (together referred to as Sony Group hereinafter) announced today that following the 73 billion yen investment made in the fiscal year 2003 (ending March 2004), they would make a second phase investment of a total of approximately 120 billion yen to establish semiconductor mass production lines to build chips with 65 nanometer process.

Sony Group positions semiconductor as one of the most important technologies that would define and add values to the products. This investment for the 65 nanometer process fabrication line will be conducted as part of the previously announced 200 billion yen semiconductor investment (over three years starting from fiscal year 2003: announced on April 21, 2003) that will contribute to the manufacturing of the new microprocessor for the broadband-era, codenamed "Cell", as well as various media processors to be used for a wide array of Sony Group's next generation digital consumer electronics (CE) products and next generation computer entertainment system.

The second phase investment of approximately 120 billion yen will be used to further enhance the fabrication lines with 65 nanometer process on 300 mm wafers. The investment will be made by Sony Group to three fabrication facilities; SCEI's Fab2, a semiconductor fabrication facility in Isahaya City, Nagasaki Prefecture, IBM Corporation's (IBM) East Fishkill Fab, in New York, United States, and Toshiba Corporation's (Toshiba) newly built Oita Factory, located in Oita Prefecture.

Of the 120 billion yen, approximately 53 billion yen will be used to reinforce the fabrication line located in the clean room on the first floor in SCEI's Fab2, for the manufacturing of 65 nanometer generation high-performance LSIs such as "Cell", using SOI process technology.

Approximately 36 billion yen will be invested in IBM's East Fishkill Fab, which will likewise manufacture 65 nanometer processors using SOI process technology. As for the investment to Toshiba, combined with the investment executed in the fiscal year 2003, a total of approximately 42 billion yen (second phase investment: approximately 31 billion yen) will be invested by Sony Group to build a 65 nanometer semiconductor facility using DRAM CMOS technology. At the same time, Toshiba will make the same amount of investment to their newly built Oita Factory.

Pilot production at each fabrication facility is expected to start in the first half of the fiscal year 2005, with planned production capacity of 15000 wafers/month in total.

Sony Group works closely with Toshiba and IBM to actively pursue the development of the next generation microprocessor and the most advanced semiconductor process technology to drive the coming broadband era. The execution of the investment enables the Group to verify the process technology development results under an environment equivalent to mass production so that it could establish effective mass production systems and smoothly start up the operation once the system LSI design is completed.

Sony Group will continue to actively conduct research and development of the cutting-edge semiconductors applied for various digital CE products including CCD imaging devices and to develop high performance and easy to use products.
This is the first time Sony Electronic Corp's "CE Media Processor" is mentioned in an official press release. No, this is not CELL, Kutaragi said so himself and they would "work together".

CELL Vs "CE MP", interesting to see which one will survive...



This is the first time that the specific general and ambiguous statement you put in bold ?

Come on.... you can find tons of Press-Releases that state "high performance LSIs" and other things similar to what you posted.... whoa this time is Media Processors and not System LSIs ?

I think you are seeing waaaaay too much in that Press-Release.
 
...

That man is Ken Kutaragi.
And it was Kutaragi who admitted that this CE Media Processor was "totally" different from CELL, and they would work together.

CELL will be used in CE products, so it is CELL CE too .
Nope. The CE product he is talking about is

1. Powered by "CE Media Processor"
2. Runs CELF Linux.
3. Interoperable with other vender's devices.

Another thing: CELL is a scalable architecture not a generation/partiucular implementation/chip.
So you expect CELL to be in digital cameras and cellphones too? Hell, CELL is not used in SCEI's own handheld, so why are you expecing Sony Electronics to adapt it????

The PR said " various media processors" ( processors, not processor ).
The PR clearly distinguishes them from CELL.

CELL used alongside those processors/Media Engines ? As long as they are manufactured in Sony's own plants it is all ok.
It means Sony Electronics has its own platform and migration plans from that of SCEI; and they are apparantly incompatible.

CELL was not substituting every single IC used by Sony: the fact that it could co-exist with another processor in the system used for specific/specialized functions is not something to cry home about all scared.
It should be doing just that if Kutaragi's dreams were to be realized; this isn't happening.
 
And it was Kutaragi who admitted that this CE Media Processor was "totally" different from CELL, and they would work together.

[...]

Nope. The CE product he is talking about is

1. Powered by "CE Media Processor"
2. Runs CELF Linux.
3. Interoperable with other vender's devices.

See, they work together, they can be in the same device, they are both CE oriented.

On their Press Conferences they already said quite clear that CELL was a company wide effort and used in products outside PlayStation 3: they said we would see CELL devices by 2005 which explains why we do not see CELL in PSP.

You expect CELL to substitute A/D and D/A converters too ?

They already said that they would still use dedicated Silicon in CELL based systems for things that were not worth doing in Software on CELL ( example would be Texture Filtering and Sampling ).

Do not increase the scope of CELL beyond its intended one.
 
Something needs to have a CRTC inside the PS3 to output to Monitor.. Something Broadband Engine will not have.

These "media processors" are probably GPU's..
 
What is the point of cell? Is it to be a processor that will never need upgrading, a processor that all sony has to do is keep adding more apus and miniturizing and it will serve their purposes for the next 20 years?
 
What's the point of any processor?

Anyway, Deadmeat, seriously... How can this chip be a Cell rival? If you drop your stupid theatrics, fact remain these are two different things targetting two different tasks built by the SAME company. Cell's not even a chip, it's an architecture (something you repeatedly been informed of but keep ignoring). How can they be RIVALS if they're not doing the same thing and belong to the same company? I just don't get your logic.

Neither does anyone else either.
 
Well, ok then, a more specific question, what's the point of Cell being so different from normal processors? Why is it highly scalable? Surely this isn't something Sony's only going to use for a few products(like the ps2's emotion engine) and then drop.
 
The point is to fit a different range of devices with a Instructuon Set that remains the same at its core ( the APU ) across all these devices: much better inter-operability and data sharing features with more efficient computing ( no ultra complex software layers between them to re-compile or interpret the code sent across the network ).

Adding APUs as a cheap way to extend CELL or add PEs or increasing the clock ? Why not ? ;)
 
...

Pana

they said we would see CELL devices by 2005 which explains why we do not see CELL in PSP.
And SCEI couldn't wait for just one more year???? Hell, SCEI won't adapt CELL in its own device, so why do you expect Sony Electronics to adapt CELL in its devices???

They already said that they would still use dedicated Silicon in CELL based systems for things that were not worth doing in Software on CELL ( example would be Texture Filtering and Sampling ).
Teraflop isn't enough to do everything in software???

Fox5

Well, ok then, a more specific question, what's the point of Cell being so different from normal processors?
It has an ethernet adapter built in. That's about it. Read my sig and think.

Why is it highly scalable?
It is as scalable as the ability of coder to make it scale. In other word, it won't scale under the hands of most coders.

Surely this isn't something Sony's only going to use for a few products(like the ps2's emotion engine) and then drop.
That's the likely outcome. Remember what Sony was promising the world with Emotion Engine? Workstations, supercomputers, never materialized.

Guden Oden

Anyway, Deadmeat, seriously... How can this chip be a Cell rival?
Because it does the same thing(at lower cost) and it doesn't need CELL to operate.
 
DM said:
Teraflop isn't enough to do everything in software???
Since when is Teraflop possible within Deadmeat's world?
I thought that according to you it's theoretically impossible for them to make PS3 with a Cell based chip faster then 32GFlops or something around that unless they launch it in year 3333.

It is as scalable as the ability of coder to make it scale. In other word, it won't scale under the hands of most coders.
How does a programmer scale hardware?
Let me guess, we are supposed to use our latent magical powers to conjure up larger Cell chips within existing machines? :oops:

That's the likely outcome. Remember what Sony was promising the world with Emotion Engine? Workstations, supercomputers, never materialized.
Workstations existed, and you could argue that clusters of networked PS2s could be called super computer too :p Whether Sony actually gained anything from those little experiments doesn't matter, the world received them, as promised.
 
Teraflop isn't enough to do everything in software???

Computing power can't make up for a CRTC, think before you speak, I know it's hard because your unemployed and have to think where your next meal is coming from.

It has an ethernet adapter built in. That's about it. Read my sig and think.

Trash comment.

It is as scalable as the ability of coder to make it scale. In other word, it won't scale under the hands of most coders.

More trash.


Because it does the same thing(at lower cost) and it doesn't need CELL to operate.

This is wrong

And SCEI couldn't wait for just one more year???? Hell, SCEI won't adapt CELL in its own device, so why do you expect Sony Electronics to adapt CELL in its devices???

Comments by Ando confirm that you are indeed full of shit.
 
Re: ...

And SCEI couldn't wait for just one more year???? Hell, SCEI won't adapt CELL in its own device, so why do you expect Sony Electronics to adapt CELL in its devices???

No, SCEI could not wait one more year... ths way they can launch before Nintendo has a full GBQA 2 to compete on the market right away.

Yours is faulty loic: you assume that Sony could wait one more year and refused to use CELL in the PSP.

If they could hav used CELL they would have.



You ask the question "Couldn't SCEI wait one more year ?".

Then you say.

"SCEI won't adapt CELL to its own device".


You answer your own question yourself, how can you be so full of yourself ?
 
Re: ...

Deadmeat said:
And SCEI couldn't wait for just one more year????

Uh, what are you talking about? Design completion isn't the only variable here you know. Seems to me you do not consider power consumption, portability, die size etc etc.

Hell, SCEI won't adapt CELL in its own device, so why do you expect Sony Electronics to adapt CELL in its devices???

You're such a clown, I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad.

Teraflop isn't enough to do everything in software???

Jesus christ... You ARE joking, right? Please tell me you're joking!

Why would you do things in software that is done much faster and more efficiently? Why spend the 60 or so ops required to trilinear-filter one pixel when hardware can do that in one or two clock cycles?

Read my sig and think.

Considering how selectively you read the person you quote in that sig, I don't think you have much to add in any debate on this topic.

In other word, it won't scale under the hands of most coders.

Well, like you would know, not being a programmer yourself just for starters. :LOL:

Anyway, Deadmeat, seriously... How can this chip be a Cell rival?
Because it does the same thing(at lower cost) and it doesn't need CELL to operate.

A; since you don't know what any of the cell-architectured chips that may be planned will cost, I don't know how you can say that with any degree of certainty, and B; since a cell MPU would not compete with this chip (geared towards different tasks), your point is completely moot in any case.

Trying to interpret your posts is like trying to understand the Zero Wing intro. I constantly find myself thinking, "What you say!" So, launch every 'Zig', because someone set us up the bomb.
 
Its not hard to realize that the Cell-based EE3/Broadband Engine will not be the only chip inside Playstation 3.

several non-cell based chips will do various tasks in hardware. no doubt the 'media processor(s)' will handle this indepentantly of EE3/BE.

audio, I/O, rasterizing probably will not be done on cell-based chips.


just to name a few things.
 
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