Shenmue 3 details...question for Xbox devs.

Ug Lee

Newcomer
No doubt you've all read this interview, but it is worth posting to lead into my question.

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/features/interviews/am2/

European Correspondent Ali and his associate Heidi Kemps (a.k.a. Zero-chan) bring us this second Sega developer interview straight from Japan. Very special thanks to Taku Kihara (AM2 PR team) and Shin Ishikawa (Shenmue II Xbox team leader) for taking the time to talk with us.

TNL: First of all we would like to congratulate you on a great year and wish you the best for the new year.
A: AM2: Thank you.


Q: What kind of games do you enjoy playing yourself?
A: I like action games like Mario or RPGs like Dragon Quest.


Q: Have you worked on the previous DC Shenmue games?
A: I have worked on all Shenmue versions.


Q: Can you tell us a little bit more about the unreleased Saturn version? How long had it been worked on, and did it use the experimental Saturn expansion cartridge or the 4meg RAM card?
A: Nearly two years of work was put in the Saturn version. It didn’t use a booster cartridge nor did it use the 4meg RAM card, so yes, the game was programmed for, and the footage seen as an extra on Shenmue II is from the code running on a stock Saturn.


Q: Wow, that’s very impressive! Is the Shenmue series likely to continue on the XBox?
A: Maybe, However, I don’t know yet if I will be the one producing them.


Q: Why on the Xbox?
A: The hardware is very powerful, so that makes it easier for us to realize our visions for the series.


Q: Shenmue II was AM2's first Xbox project. What do you think of the hardware compared to other high-end hardware like Naomi 2 - which AM2 is working with, and how does the Xbox compare to Naomi 2?
A: They are both high-spec machines. Xbox has a little bit more trouble with transparencies, but overall I think they are comparable technology-wise. Each has their own weaknesses and strengths, but I wouldn’t say that overall one has the edge on the other.


Q: Why did you decide to package Shenmue: the Movie with the game?
A: We knew that there would be players new to the series and we wanted them to get a feel for the story. And also as a memory boost for those who had played it when it first came out.


Q: Is there a possibility of Shenmue II being released outside of the U.S.?
A: Yes, Microsoft has already picked it up for release in Europe. As for other markets, we can't comment on that right now.


Q: Did you have any trouble converting Shenmue II to the Xbox?
A: Apart from the aforementioned difficulty with transparencies, no, not really. The Xbox was easy to work with.


Q: How long did it take to convert the game?
A: The entire project took eight months, which is quite short for a game this big.


Q: Can you tell us more about how the chapters relate to the game, like which chapters are included in Shenmue II and which will be included in the prequel and eventual sequels?
(At this point Mr. Ishikawa gets up and writes the timeline on the board, so check the attached picture for a timeline of the chapters.)




Q: Ah, Chapter 2 is not in either game - that’s the chapter on the boat, right? Was this chapter ever planned to be made for either the DC or the Xbox?
A: No, we never intended to include that chapter in either game.


Q: The European DC version of Shenmue II was the most imported game in the U.S. ever, so much so that it must have eaten into some of the sales of the Xbox version. How did you feel about that?
A: We are happy that so many people felt so strongly about the game that they wanted to import it. It was proof that the fanbase for the game is very strong and helped us in the decision to make more Shenmue games.


Q: About Shenmue III then: I see that it will start from Chapter 7. Will it take place in China as well?
A: Yes, Shenmue III will be in China as well. Those of you who have finished the second one know that the story will expand enormously, and we will try to incorporate many exciting elements of Chinese culture et cetera into the game.


Q: Interesting. Will it be entirely in China or will Ryo leave China at some point?
A: I'm afraid we can't give that sort of information yet.


Q: When can we expect Shenmue III and further sequels to release?
A: That has not been decided yet.


Q: Okay, aren't you afraid that if you take a long time between the games that interest in the series will dwindle down?
A: The series continues because of very strong fan requests. The fans want them, so we make them. We can't say yet when the sequels will be released, but we will do our best to not let the fans down. So, I would like to say to the fans: please look forward to more Shenmue games on Xbox.


Q: Thank you. How do you feel about the entire series and all chapters (including those not yet released)?
A: I can't answer that at this point, I'd need to see how Shenmue III turns out first.


Q: Years ago, before Shenmue I, there were rumours about a Virtua Fighter RPG. That turned out to be Shenmue III. How has Virtua Fighter influenced Shenmue?
A: We incorporated moves and fighting styles from VF in Shenmue, so we took some of the martial arts themes and settings and used those in the game as well.


Q:There are a lot of rumours circulating about the Xbox-based Chihiro arcade hardware. Can you tell us more about that and about eventual further Xbox plans?
A: (Takuan replies) At the moment we can only confirm Virtua Cop 3. We would rather not discuss more at this point.


Q: Sega anounced a slew of remakes of older games for PS2 and Xbox recently. Will we see any older AM2 games added to those, and who decides wich games get the make over?
A: We decide which games get remade together with our partners.


Q: Nice, what about remakes of AM2 games for Xbox then?
A: If there is enough demand by fans to release a remake of a certain game, we will try oure best to accommodate.


Thank you both very much! I'm sure Shenmue fans worldwide will appreciate this interview.

The comment I bolded interests me - would anyone care to cast some light on the subject?

Also a Shenmue 3 game would be great. I'm a big Shenmue fan myself (not as rabid as some you'll find) and I'd love to get some closure on the series.
 
oh god........ here's a perfect opportunity for Lazy8 for a nice 3000 words essay on how great sega is and how powerful the engine is and how only the xbox can handle such a mighty holy powerfulness of an engine and blah blah blah.... :LOL:
 
The Xbox does not support automatic sorting of transparent polygons, while the Noami2 does support automatic sorting, I think...
 
Ug Lee said:
The comment I bolded interests me - would anyone care to cast some light on the subject?

Also a Shenmue 3 game would be great. I'm a big Shenmue fan myself (not as rabid as some you'll find) and I'd love to get some closure on the series.

I am also a big-big-big-big Shenmue fan. I sense (like a fortune teller, but I am talking seriously) that S3 will be released early 2004, with improved graphics. I think it will be more RPG oriented, to have more appeal to people.

They will fix things like people disapearing within few meter ( this should happen in XBOX), and increasing the resolution of the textures, shadowing mechanisms, the number of people to interect, etc.

I think scenarios, dialogues and stories are ready done for a long time. They will modify the fighting mechanism, to be like an RPG (a 3D Tale of Phatasia, without the magic), and give much more importance to side quests (like Square do to most of its RPGs).

That's why I think it won't take so long to be released.
 
Calling for MR Lazy8! What are your thoughts on Shenmue 3 Xbox? :?:
 
Not only does the XGPU (just like every other immediate-mode renderer) not support hardware-accelerated transparency sorting (I don't think hardware T&L, vertex shaders etc changes that), it also does a lot of extra framebuffer reads and writes for each layer of transparency that is rendered. Of course a deferred renderer like Naomi also has to do that, but their reads/writes will occur only in the on-chip tile cache so it doesn't hit framebuffer bandwidth at all.

*G*
 
Thowllly said:
The Xbox does not support automatic sorting of transparent polygons, while the Noami2 does support automatic sorting, I think...

Correct, Naomi2 uses PowerVR cores. The PowerVR architecture is perfect for automatic hardware sorting of transparency.

I'd guess that due to fill rate, the PVR cores will be a little slower at RENDERING the transparencies, but XGPU, once sorting is sorted out, should be much faster.
 
Another one? Meh, for how long does AM2 intend to waste money on this franchise? :?

Although it´s strange that we haven´t yet seen lazy8s´s poetic capabilities applied to the super uber duper fantastic game that Shenmue 3 will be because you can buy dolls, uselessly follow NPCs or something dull like that.
 
How long is Square going to continue wasting money on a failed Final Fantasy XI project?

The game would definitely get a major enhancement with more time put into developing it for the Xbox. More textures, higher res textures, some bump mapping, and good lighting are just of the few enhancements I can see. More characters on the screen at a time and more geometry per character and the environment around it all. I also think the hard drive would be great for this type of game as it would expand the possibilities one could do in the game so much.

It's a shame Yu Suzuki didn't spend much time with the porting of the game to the Xbox, it would be so much more polished if he put in his effort. He will be overseeing and the basically the main guy in charge of Shenmue 3, so that should all go well. If it were up to me I wouldn't let the game be released until the Xbox has at least 8 million consoles sold in the US and 5 million in Europe. It looks like it's a lost cause in Japan but that could always change.

As for the Shenmue engine on other consoles, well the GCN would be able to handle it with little to no problem. The only thing that would really need to be done is somehow making a clever way of handling the texture management, but if other devs have done it I don't see what the big problem would be for SEGA. The GCN is a very competent machine that could faithfully reproduce Shenmue and at least be able to handle Shenmue 3, even though it may not be as pretty as the Xbox version.

As for the PS2, I don't see why it wouldn't work, that is if they ported the original Saturn engine over to the PS2. That way they could increase the amount of textures from the original Saturn version and have it all done nicely. I don't know whether or not the PS2 could really handle the Shenmue engine in its current state, simply for the fact that it would be choked down by textures and the game would probably have a hard time keeping up with framerates of the 2 other systems.

Still, I'd plan for a multi-platform release.
 
RaolinDarksbane:

> Since when did Lazy8 became such a Sega fanboi?

He's always been that way. Many DC fans moved on to Xbox and they're just as rabid now as they were back then.


Sonic:

> How long is Square going to continue wasting money on a failed Final
> Fantasy XI project?

FFXI has been profitable for a while which is more than you can say about a great deal of Sega's releases.
 
You're right cybamerc, I guess I got a little too empassioned with that comment. But it's SEGA's own fault they're not selling.
 
Heh, he´d annihilate you with eight 400-words paragraphs spent on describing Ryo´s character model and how compelling and satisfying collecting dolls is.:p

Being serious Sonic, do you think it´s clever to dump another 20 million USD or so on a franchise that doesn´t have much appeal? Considering Sega´s finantial situation, wasting resources on yet another chapter in the dull Shenmue saga is not exactly ideal.
 
Sega need to disband. I think most people associates Sega with failure now days. Its unfair to their hardworking developers.
 
Logan Leonhart:
the super uber duper fantastic game that Shenmue 3 will be because you can buy dolls, uselessly follow NPCs or something dull like that.
Actually, a lot of fans like it for the modified Virtua Fighter battle engine which was expanded to allow fights with multiple allies and opponents at once.

You know, it's like one of those beat-em-ups you might've played years ago like Double Dragon, Streets of Rage, or Final Fight, only with Virtua Fighter-level depth for moves and counters.

Some like it for the system which allows you to learn new moves from different masters, has them teach you when and why to use that move during combat, and explains the move execution with intuitive mapping to the control layout ("strike forward with weight in both your arms and legs" might translate into "push the forward button, punch button, and kick button at the same time").

Others might like it because it actually lets you increase the proficiency at which your character executes the moves with practice, and the fact that you can customize your fighter for any battle by swapping moves in and out of your attack list to change Ryo's fighting style.

They also like the fact that you can actually play some of the storytelling parts with QTEs, rather than being "treated" to countless pre-recorded CG pieces you only get to passively watch.

Some might like the fact that the whole exploration and investigation mechanic is actually influenced by realistic factors like time of day, date, weather, and character behavior. This can make multiple plays through the game different with new sequences and events.
...do you think it´s clever to dump another 20 million USD or so on a franchise that doesn´t have much appeal? Considering Sega´s finantial situation, wasting resources on yet another chapter in the dull Shenmue saga is not exactly ideal.
Your use of the modifier "dull" does nothing to qualify your point regarding the economic viability of another Shenmue game.

Why don't you instead spend some effort to consider how long a new Shenmue game would take to develop (Project Head, Yu Suzuki: "The good thing is, the groundwork for Shenmue was the hardest part, so it would be much easier to make Shenmue III for us now. It would probably take half the time of the last one.", how large the customer base for the series is (Shenmue: 458,867 units US TRST Data, over a million sold worldwide; Shenmue II: several hundred thousand units sold worldwide, including 50k+ strictly on import making it one of the most imported games ever), and whether SEGA could take all that into account and plan a budget for a profitable new entry into the series.

SEGA's already absorbed much of the heavy losses and made the investment to establish the series back when it drained them during the Dreamcast days. Any new chapters from this point will be considered individually. They now have more realistic sales expectations for how future versions will perform, so they'll be considering whether they can plan a budget for a new sequel that'll allow them to be profitable with those realisitic expectations in mind. They might as well try to take advantage of the fanbase if their budget can stay in-line with their newer, more realistic sales expectations.

Now that SEGA's actually operating profitably for the first time in around seven years, it should be easier for some to have at least a modicum of faith in their business decision-making capacity.
 
You know, saying Shenmue is great for the large-scale VF-style fighting has one flaw, the fact that between the fights are hours and hours of running back and forth doing dull thing after dull thing after even more dull thing...

The QTE's just make sure you don't fall asleep while running back and forth... :?
 
So you don't like great plot, fabulous character development, unbelievably detailed characters, great graphics, detailed environments, etc? No wonder you like Final fantasy games... :LOL: [/quote]
 
Tagrineth:
You know, saying Shenmue is great for the large-scale VF-style fighting has one flaw, the fact that between the fights are hours and hours of running back and forth doing dull thing after dull thing after even more dull thing...
I enjoyed the investigation portion of the game. It gave you the freedom for searching the ever-changing world to encounter new scenarios depending on when and where you went, and who you met. It provided for a wealth of storyline context and impressive character development. The gameplay mechanic made you consider time, date, and weather for finding and meeting up with dynamically behaving people within interesting environments. It was all pulled off very naturally.

But, then again, I grew up on Infocom text adventures like the Zork series, so detail-based exploration gameplay is very fascinating to me.
 
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