Sega's first NEXT GEN game!
- Thread starter Berserk
- Start date
Berserk said:
First of all, you should take this link away, as magazine scans are not allowed!
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16189
Secondly I must say I am somewhat underwhelmed...
EDIT: link
Didn't I tell people that they shouldn't expect ray tracing or crazy rendering techniques on the nextgen consoles?
You won't get graphics beyond what you can do on a PC today (high end PC's). I honestly think the only difference will be the consistency in framerate and of course different styles of games.
You won't get graphics beyond what you can do on a PC today (high end PC's). I honestly think the only difference will be the consistency in framerate and of course different styles of games.
The game is developed by monolith, it's only published by Sega.
As far as I'm concerned, saying that I'm underwhelmed by the first batch of next-gen would be an understatement.
At least, after talking with developers working on next-gen projects, I already got my expectations revised lower a few months ago.
As far as I'm concerned, saying that I'm underwhelmed by the first batch of next-gen would be an understatement.
At least, after talking with developers working on next-gen projects, I already got my expectations revised lower a few months ago.
Most of the tech stuff is beyond being over my head but speaking from strictly a "gamer" point of view Im not going to judge first generation software until the big guns fire off their opening salvo. Kojima, Bungie, Itakagi, PolyD, Naughty Dog/Insomniac, Ubi, whoever EA bought that week etc. will be a good indication. At least better than what looks like a PC port from Monolith (nothing against Monolith).
First gen um next gen games will look only slightly better than pc games , they already have graphics cards of the same amount of total system ram for the consoles or half the total amounts . Also the two big games that just hit (hl2 and doom3) both were developed for a long time where as the launch games will be made with in a year or so .
I think where the new consoles will shine is in AI, Physics, and the like. Still screenshots cannot convey how enemies move, how every item can be moved and blown apart, etc... And since consoles are a static HW medium we can expect games to push the HW in the 2nd and 3rd gen of games. Right now top end HW is being underused significantly. Look at what the Xbox can do compared to HW released at its time. It has done a good job of staying up for the most part.
So am am expecting good looking next gen games, stuff that is a little ahead of top end PC, but not mind blowing. 2nd and 3rd gen stuff should really take advantage of the HW, but by then the PC will have GPUs 2x faster (but under utilized). Oh well, that is how it always works. Reality steps in... ho hum.
So am am expecting good looking next gen games, stuff that is a little ahead of top end PC, but not mind blowing. 2nd and 3rd gen stuff should really take advantage of the HW, but by then the PC will have GPUs 2x faster (but under utilized). Oh well, that is how it always works. Reality steps in... ho hum.
Qroach said:
Well, this game looks far lower in quality than UE3. I´m also hoping smart developers like Konami avoid the action figure look some of these engines have.
I´m basically waiting for MGS4 to look exactly how damn good looking next gen games are going to be. If it´s slightly better than Doom 3, I´ll definitely be dissapointed.
I'm possibly going out on a limb here, but everything I'm seeing right now for next gen games (on console) points to around ten times the geometry of something like FarCry, with ShaderModel 3.0 or slightly better shader effects. That's probably near the peak of it too. Better than PC for sure.
That assumption is based on every next-gen title I've seen running. AND... Given a more robust development environment for this coming generation, and a better development "learning curve" it's also likely that year one games will be atleast reasonably indicative of year five games. In short what that means is what you see from launch day may not be that much different from what you see when these machines retire.
I don't account in that estimate for things such as instancing (which could get you far closer to what your GPU could draw per frame). That could give you far more geometry, but you'd have clones everywhere. Another thing that could throw off that estimate is console specific design... So far everything we've seen (I think anyway) has been multiplatform. That being the case, nothing seems actually optimised to exploit Xbox 2, or PS3, or Revolution hardware in specific. Who knows... Well, there's another spin for you.
Later
That assumption is based on every next-gen title I've seen running. AND... Given a more robust development environment for this coming generation, and a better development "learning curve" it's also likely that year one games will be atleast reasonably indicative of year five games. In short what that means is what you see from launch day may not be that much different from what you see when these machines retire.
I don't account in that estimate for things such as instancing (which could get you far closer to what your GPU could draw per frame). That could give you far more geometry, but you'd have clones everywhere. Another thing that could throw off that estimate is console specific design... So far everything we've seen (I think anyway) has been multiplatform. That being the case, nothing seems actually optimised to exploit Xbox 2, or PS3, or Revolution hardware in specific. Who knows... Well, there's another spin for you.
Later
This gen we saw PC ports near PS2 launch, at least we saw Half Life.
Half Life on PS2 looked much worse than on over year old PC hardware, and run slower.
One could think that as things were back then, they'll be the same next gen. If Half Life 2 is ported to PS2, it'll look worse than it looks on PC today
But, as we can see, PS2 has aged quite well, much better than PS1 did. Top PS2 games are graphically (if we forget they are lower res) comparable to top PC games, witness GT4 (could well go for a top PC game today), MGS3, Jak3, R&C3.....
So, next gen PC ports will look equal in PS3. Not much better, as they share the same art, modelling and textures, physics, lighting. Equal, but not better.
But I think games specially coded for PS3 (and Revolution, xbox2) will look beyond what top PC games can do.
Witness Teken TAG (not the jaggy japanese version), no PC game had such detailed characters, actually it took over a year before PC reached the same level (ok, comparing a figting game to first person shooters is not necessarily fair, but you can compare GT3 with PC racing games of the same era then, if you will).
Edit: Sorry, I see this topic was about that Sega's next gen game. My post is slightly off topic
Half Life on PS2 looked much worse than on over year old PC hardware, and run slower.
One could think that as things were back then, they'll be the same next gen. If Half Life 2 is ported to PS2, it'll look worse than it looks on PC today
But, as we can see, PS2 has aged quite well, much better than PS1 did. Top PS2 games are graphically (if we forget they are lower res) comparable to top PC games, witness GT4 (could well go for a top PC game today), MGS3, Jak3, R&C3.....
So, next gen PC ports will look equal in PS3. Not much better, as they share the same art, modelling and textures, physics, lighting. Equal, but not better.
But I think games specially coded for PS3 (and Revolution, xbox2) will look beyond what top PC games can do.
Witness Teken TAG (not the jaggy japanese version), no PC game had such detailed characters, actually it took over a year before PC reached the same level (ok, comparing a figting game to first person shooters is not necessarily fair, but you can compare GT3 with PC racing games of the same era then, if you will).
Edit: Sorry, I see this topic was about that Sega's next gen game. My post is slightly off topic
I think a lot of what we have seen (which is hardly anything) is being handicapped by the PC. Top end PC hardware (6800 series, SM 3.0, 3.0GHz+, 512MB RAM or more) is fine, but any cross platform title will most likely be taking PS 1.0 into consideration. BF2 is one of the few games I have heard not supporting PS 1.0 (they require 1.4).
With games specifically designed for HW that has SM 3.0+ and does not worry about older models, and is designed to push the engines geometry and the CPU to get as much AI/Physics code running at a time, then we will see what these can do. Looking at PC ports tells us very little about the HW. But for now that will have to do because so far that is all they have worked on over the last couple years that is even in the same league as the new consoles.
I also think with Shaders games will get MUCH better when comparing first and last gen games simply because consoles will not be fixed function HW. e.g. A game under water may have all kinds of CRAZY water effects, while a space game may have a ton of laser and explosion effects. Right now developers are stuck using whatever they are given. With the new HW designers can tailor the engines and effects much better than they could on a fixed function GPU like the GCN. The flexibility to use the graphics hardware to do the exact effects they want I think will really come into play in 2nd and 3rd generation games. I think ingenious developers may also come up with some pretty neat shaders to do things we did not think of before.
The biggest hurdle I see is money, time, and ability. Having good artists will become very important, but also having the time/manpower/money to push a quality project through is going to be a real challenge, especially for smaller guys. And I think the trend of less innovation and more "safe" games will continue. Who wants to spend $10M on a new concept and 2 years developing it for it to flop?
With games specifically designed for HW that has SM 3.0+ and does not worry about older models, and is designed to push the engines geometry and the CPU to get as much AI/Physics code running at a time, then we will see what these can do. Looking at PC ports tells us very little about the HW. But for now that will have to do because so far that is all they have worked on over the last couple years that is even in the same league as the new consoles.
I also think with Shaders games will get MUCH better when comparing first and last gen games simply because consoles will not be fixed function HW. e.g. A game under water may have all kinds of CRAZY water effects, while a space game may have a ton of laser and explosion effects. Right now developers are stuck using whatever they are given. With the new HW designers can tailor the engines and effects much better than they could on a fixed function GPU like the GCN. The flexibility to use the graphics hardware to do the exact effects they want I think will really come into play in 2nd and 3rd generation games. I think ingenious developers may also come up with some pretty neat shaders to do things we did not think of before.
The biggest hurdle I see is money, time, and ability. Having good artists will become very important, but also having the time/manpower/money to push a quality project through is going to be a real challenge, especially for smaller guys. And I think the trend of less innovation and more "safe" games will continue. Who wants to spend $10M on a new concept and 2 years developing it for it to flop?