Reloaded: Architect's Flaw

[fbg1]

Just saw Reloaded again tonight and realized an interesting flaw in the Architect's plan. According to the Architect (and Merovingian), there is no choice, everything is a matter of cause and effect, therefore all events are predetermined by preceding events. Then the Architect explains Neo's two choices, and tells Neo with certainty that Trinity will die and there is nothing he can do to stop it. According to the Architect's causality model, Trinity should die. Yet, Trinity does not die, Neo saves her. That was an error in the Architect's predictions/plans that he did not foresee. Second, the Architect says to Neo at the beginning of their conversation, "...although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human." Could that alteration be responsible not only for Neo's powers in the Matrix, but also in the real world? Did the Architect also fail to foresee Neo's real world powers?

I think that Neo is a symptom of entropy in the Matrix. Every ordered system tends toward disorder over time, and the Matrix is no different. Using Zion and an elaborate scheme, the machines are able to control both the 99% of humanity that accepts the Matrix, and the 1% that does not. They are even able to control The One, in an indirect way. Yet, as time goes on, and the sixth iteration of the The One arrives, something is different, and was not predicted by the machines' mathematical models. The One rejects the rational choice that all previous The Ones have accepted, saves Trinity in spite of a certain prediction to the contrary, and gains unexpected new powers in the real world. It appears that the Architect is not in as much control of the sitauation as he believes.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Just saw Reloaded again tonight and realized an interesting flaw in the Architect's plan. According to the Architect (and Merovingian), there is no choice, everything is a matter of cause and effect, therefore all events are predetermined by preceding events. Then the Architect explains Neo's two choices, and tells Neo with certainty that Trinity will die and there is nothing he can do to stop it. According to the Architect's causality model, Trinity should die. Yet, Trinity does not die, Neo saves her.

The Oracle also told Neo that he would die. But he didn't, wait...he DID but them came back to life.

Trinity DID Die, just like Neo did. They just both "came back to life."

Even beyond that, the Architect did not say when Trinity would die, only that she would die. Ultimately, Trinity will die. And ultimatley, Neo will not be able to stop it from happening.

Second, the Architect says to Neo at the beginning of their conversation, "...although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human." Could that alteration be responsible not only for Neo's powers in the Matrix, but also in the real world?

Possibly.

Did the Architect also fail to foresee Neo's real world powers?

Dunno, but even if the real-world powers are true, that doesn't mean the Architect idn't aware of them.

They are even able to control The One, in an indirect way. Yet, as time goes on, and the sixth iteration of the The One arrives, something is different, and was not predicted by the machines' mathematical models.

I agree with that.

On the one hand, the AI is deluding itself into believing it has total control because "everything is cause and effect and therefore everything is known with certainty."

On the other hand, humans delude themselves into believing they have total control, because they control their "choices."

The truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

[fbg1]

Good points. Perhaps the Architect was both right and wrong. Regardless, I wonder how that will play out in Revolutions.

Dunno, but even if the real-world powers are true, that doesn't mean the Architect idn't aware of them.

True. However, my theory is that Neo's real world powers are an unintended consequence of the "process" of becoming The One, unforeseen by the machines. I think those powers are unique to Neo, and the previous The Ones didn't have them. I may be wrong, but that's my bet.

On the one hand, the AI is deluding itself into believing it has total control because "everything is cause and effect and therefore everything is known with certainty."

Yes, you would think they'd have taken a more probabalistic approach to whole thing, which would preclude the certainty alluded to by the Architect.

The truth is somewhere in the middle.

Agreed.

 

[Vince]

The truth is somewhere in the middle.

Hey Joe, can you make one of your bias graphs to demonstrate? Be very in vogue


Although, I happen to attribute Neo's powers more to the intertwining that happened between Neo and Agent Smith. Just as Smith has taken on the previously impossible ability to survive in the real world; Neo has gained insight aswell. But, as I said before - IMHO, Neo is one badass guy (do inmuch part to this occurance) - much more than we now attribute.

 

[Saem]

A friend told me the following:

If you play Enter the Matrix with Niobe, there will be a part where the Oracle says Neo is half-way between both worlds and Trinity has to save him.

 

[Mod]

The Oracle also told Neo that he would die. But he didn't, wait...he DID but them came back to life.

Trinity DID Die, just like Neo did. They just both "came back to life."

Even beyond that, the Architect did not say when Trinity would die, only that she would die. Ultimately, Trinity will die. And ultimatley, Neo will not be able to stop it from happening.

There is other interpretation for that. Beside having implied that he would die, she said that he would be The One in other life. If you don´t consider this last an ironic coment, she could have guessed right, that he died (shoted by the agent Smith ) to be reborn as The One.

As for the Architect, I have to wait for revolutions...

 

[indio]

I thint's clear the way this is being set up for the next film . The machines are all about "purpose" which is just another way of saying they think the are driven by destiny. That there is a reason why they exist and that the must fulfillthat reason.
Human's on the other hand believe in choice which is just another way to say "free will". This is the crux of human duality.

The above is something to think about.

I will attempt to give my thoughts on the architect
First off what is the purpose of the architect?
To design the a Matrix to keep humans under complete control indefinitely.
The architect is still alive so the Matrix is not complete. It will be complete when every human being accepts the programming of the matrix 100%.
The machines are weeding bugs out of the programming through successive versions (currently ver. 6). Each version has a cycle and when the cycle is complete the Matrix is basically "rebooted" and run off the latest version of the prime programming from scratch. The machines are trying to eliminate "real" choice but want to create the illusion of choice. In each version they try something different in order to make the "final choice" absolutley predictable thereby eliminating a real choice. In this version they are using the love between a man and woman as a tool to ensure a specific response. The previous were given a generalized attachment. By using an emotion that overides logic and reason Neo will do something and thinks he's doing it out of "free will" but is actually doing it on an instictively autotomical level.

"The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program.
The architect NEVER said the other ones ever performed the "function of the One" If they did perform the function then the system would have been perfect as is .They could just rinse and repeat et infinitum . Why would they need to give Neo a specific programming to love causing not to perform the function? Why would they change something?

"But we already know what you're going to do, don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and reason
The architect know that Neo is going to make a choice that will destroy the Matrix which tells me it was designed for Neo to be put in a situation that he percieved he had a choice but really didn't. Do not assume the architect was truthful about what would happen to the Matrix if Neo didn't reinsert the prime program.

 

[pascal]

Also about the Neo´s power in the real world: is the real world real?

 

[Sunday]

A friend told me the following:

If you play Enter the Matrix with Niobe, there will be a part where the Oracle says Neo is half-way between both worlds and Trinity has to save him.

In the trailer for the Revolutions when fight between Smith and Neo begin , Morpheus say: ' Hi fight for us!', as the replay for Niobe acclamation 'NEO'!
Revolutions will reveal amazing things about Matrix and The One!

 

[Jerry Cornelius]

"In this version they are using the love between a man and woman as a tool to ensure a specific response. The previous were given a generalized attachment"

I think he said that he instilled something in order to facilitate "the one", but whereas the others felt in it a more generalistic way, with Neo it is more specific. It seems obvious he's talking about "love".

The determinism versus free will theme is laid on pretty thick. It seems that Neo's hard-on for Trinity is what's going to change things this time around, whereas the other before him made the predicatable sensible choice for the "love of mankind".

 

[Randell]

Which is something I beleive Persephone wanted to see in this iteration of Neo.

 

[Fred]

Anyone get the impression neo isnt seeing into the future so much as he is seeing in the past.

The thing I can see coming from a mile away, is the presence of Smith altering the reality of the Matrix. So it will be the conjunction of machine and man that ultimately leads to its demise. Common theme in scifi

 

[Deepak]

Reloaded is Gr8....but Original matrix was awesome!.....somehow I liked originals' action sequences better than Reloaded's...!

 

[fbg1]

I'd have to disagree. I thought Keanu was much more convincing as a martial artist in Reloaded than in Matrix. His movements seemed smoother and less stilted, and he seemed more comfortable with the choreography. And of course, Morpheus fighting with the katana was icing on the cake.

 

[Gubbi]

My prediction is that the Architect does a:

killall -9 neo

In the 3rd movie.

Cheers
Gubbi

 

[indio]

My prediction is that the Architect does a:

killall -9 neo

In the 3rd movie.

Cheers
Gubbi

it's either gonna be
/admin_slap Neo
or
/kick Neo
/addban Neo

 

[tamattack]

Has anyone else gotten the impression that the Architect is actually the previous One?

And Neo would have become the Architect of the next Matrix if he chose the other door?

 

[Neeyik]

It's also possible that when Neo bopped off Smith in the first film, he gained the ability to influence machines in the real world just as Smith has gained the ability to step out of the Matrix (and therefore effect the real world as a "machine" himself). This lame theory would explain why the 6th iteration of Neo has messed things up for the Architect - "the One" is part of the entire program but the "Neo-One" is no longer the same program; it's changed due to oogy mess with Smith.

I have a horrible feeling that all this "over thinking" about Matrix: Reloaded will only lead to some rather disappointed folks (and, no doubt, some rather heated forum discussions) when we all get to see Revolutions later this year.

 

[Randell]

Has anyone else gotten the impression that the Architect is actually the previous One?

And Neo would have become the Architect of the next Matrix if he chose the other door?

nope because the architect says he is the father of the Matrix, and the Matrix is older than anyone realises, and the first one he created was perfect and a failure and he counts versions from each anamoly, so this is the 6th version.

 

[Tagrineth]

I'd have to disagree. I thought Keanu was much more convincing as a martial artist in Reloaded than in Matrix. His movements seemed smoother and less stilted, and he seemed more comfortable with the choreography. And of course, Morpheus fighting with the katana was icing on the cake.

Yes! Amazingly enough, Keanu seemed to do something resembling 'Acting' in Reloaded... he's done it before, though (who's seen The Replacements? ).

Katana = 8)

Morpheus =

Morpheus + Katana =