reason why the antiwar movement did not catch on in US

[Crusher]

The moon = nuclear waste disposal site

Why else would a useless rock be endlessly circling our planet?

 

[Heathen]

Why else would a useless rock be endlessly circling our planet?

Believe it or not there's a heck of a lot of water up there and just imagine the game of gold you could have.

 

[zidane1strife]

What if you could have a completely clean environment almost, but you had to turn 0.01% of the earth's surface into an uninhabitable hellhole by concentrating all your bad stuff in one place.


Is it really clear that laying down immense solar production facilities around the world to handle the future energy needs of a planet of 6 billion people living a western lifestyle will not negatively impact the planet?

From my understanding current fusion technology is already sufficiently advanced to serve as a power source... that is if the reactors are made of a certain massive size, that would cost some $$$$$$$... still that would be preferable to fision reactors.... and I'm sure there are many ways to obtain the necessary money for such an endeavour.... still it appears that since this would severely hurt certain industries/companies it wont be done.

 

[RussSchultz]

From my understanding current fusion technology is already sufficiently advanced to serve as a power source.... still it appears that since this would severely hurt certain industries/companies it wont be done.

You're batting 0 for 10+ here. With an ongoing record like that, you should consider expanding your sources(quit listening to the conspiricy shills) and come visit reality.

Sustainable fusion reactions that are energy positive are still the holy grail(i.e. not within reach).

 

[zidane1strife]

Sustainable fusion reactions that are energy positive are still the holy grail.

Well, my sources are quite good...

Now I said nuke reactors create dangerous waste... it is TRUE.

I said the us has 2million deaths... that was probably at msnbc.com or the newspaper... true I shouldn't trust them...

As for the fusion reactor, I heard there's a theoretical one that might work and might be built in Europe, but it will cost billions of dollars to build, making it nonviable for most.... I think I read that in a Discover mag...

Again, I don't keep all the details of what I read/hear in my head, just the important Shocking stuff... True, I might've read/heard it wrong, but I don't think so....

Anyways one can always verify this stuff, so I might later...

 

[nutball]

There are working fusion reactors which can sustain fusion for short periods of time (seconds, maybe minutes if they push it hard). But, as Russ alluded to, it takes a lot more energy to initiate fusion than the machines produce.

I've seen quotes from fusion researchers saying that commercially viable fusion is five years away. Those quotes are from thirty years ago. I think that speaks volumes in itself.

 

[fbg1]

As for the fusion reactor, I heard there's a theoretical one that might work and might be built in Europe, but it will cost billions of dollars to build, making it nonviable for most.... I think I read that in a Discover mag...

You're referring to ITER - International Thermonuclear Reactor - an international collaboration on the next gen tokomak fusion reactor. Here's the site:

http://www.iter.org/

They have high hopes, but the reactor is still experimental. It's more a proof of concept to see if they can achieve a production-ready reactor. Unfortunately, this is a huge, expensive project, along the lines of the Superconducting Supercollider back in the 80s, early 90s. Even if it works, widespread fusion power generation based on this design is still decades away.

 

[Sxotty]

Anti-American is a term used pretty recklessly these days, IMO. I honestly don't think the majority of the protestors are against the American way of life. I think it resembles more of a paranoia stemming from an uncertainty of the real goals of the U.S. government in taking this action.

Previously, the existence of the U.N. kept these people confident that the U.S. could be the world's only superpower and still be kept in line by the larger organization. Now that the U.S. has demonstrated that the U.N. can't always dictate what action it takes, these people are afraid of what is possible, even if it's not neccessarily what will happen. When you wonder how the Europeans can feel this way, try to remember how many empires have conquered different portions of Eruope in the past few centuries.

That is a really good point, and I have never thought of it since I guess I live in the US it never crossed my mind.

 

[Sxotty]

Sure they run clean, but nuclear waste does indeed occur, and disposing it is anything but enviromentally friendly.

Nuclear waste can be dealt with much more proficiently than the current implementation, however for various reasons people do not want to.

Every choice you make has bad environmental outcomes that is a fact sorry.

My personal opinion is we should make a large solar array in Nevada instead of a waste storage depot.

In the day pump water in a sealed system up a mountain and the water can pour down at night to make energy. Since it is sealed none would evaporate.

There is many problems with this as all other ideas, cost for one but ignoring that.

The solar array would destroy the environment it was placed on. Producing solar cells relies on nasty chemicals that are bad for the environment.

That is how life is trade-offs.

 

[zidane1strife]

They have high hopes, but the reactor is still experimental. It's more a proof of concept to see if they can achieve a production-ready reactor. Unfortunately, this is a huge, expensive project, along the lines of the Superconducting Supercollider back in the 80s, early 90s. Even if it works, widespread fusion power generation based on this design is still decades away.

Yes, but according to the guys who did the article in the mag it's very promising.

As for the energy prob. It's just a matter of time until it's resolved. The enviromental damage will have to be tolerated for now.... and THERE IS NO WAY I'm living near any nuke reactor... no f#cking w@y... maybe later when people can withstand the explosion, and the radiation... then I might consider it...

 

[Crusher]

There's a small nuclear reactor about 8 blocks from where I live in the Mechanical Engineering building on campus. I don't think I've spent one second of my life worrying about whether or not it would explode, and it's being operated by 20 year old college students.

 

[Humus]

Why else would a useless rock be endlessly circling our planet?

Believe it or not there's a heck of a lot of water up there and just imagine the game of gold you could have.

Game of gold ... you mean like a Hockey match on the lunar ice?

 

[fbg1]

Yes, but according to the guys who did the article in the mag it's very promising.

Yes, promising, but longterm. Here's the 2-month old press release of the US announcement that we're joining ITER. Hmmm, coincidence? I think not. (Al Quaeda + Iraq - oil = ITER?)

http://www.energy.gov/HQPress/releases03/janpr/pr03026.htm

ITER could begin construction in 2006 and be operational in 2014. Fusion research would last for up to 20 years.

Don't get your hopes up for a fusion-powered world anytime soon.

 

[zidane1strife]

What are a few decades? That's gonna pass by in no time...

 

[zidane1strife]

Saw the link

The fusion power produced in the ITER plasma will be 10 times greater than the external power added to the plasma.

If that is true, it means on paper it appears to succesfully produce more energy than is inputted. So if it works, it'll likely be like a test run for what's to come.

 

[Vince]

What are a few decades? That's gonna pass by in no time...

HA! As Nutball stated, sustainable Fusion has this mystical attribute to it where it's allways 5 or 15 years away.... been this way for the last half century. It's kind of funny when the history of it is put in perspective.

Also, although Princeton's tokamak closed, I think there is still significant research being done on the topic there and I remember hearing something about a collaberation with the US NFF - anyone know how the progress is going? Who else in the US even has experimental tokamak research? MIT?

Also, didn't a Japanese (?) University come up with a rival to the Tokamak system? I really don't know much on present, applied Fusion research. Anyone know where to find informatioin outside of ITER?

 

[zidane1strife]

Well, I think this time it might happen, isn't it just a scaled up tokamak?
Anyway, fusion, if there is no physics that make it unviable, will be here before the end of this century... The amazon is being destroyed too, but we'll just have to hope the planet can take a few decades beating.

 

[RussSchultz]

If the reaction takes more energy to sustain itself than it creates, you cannot make it viable by simply making it bigger! (This is the same reason 90% of the .com's failed--you can't make your losses up in volume)

I'm all for research, but your claim that fusion is here but "big oil" is preventing it from happening is simply ludicrous.

 

[nutball]

Anyway, fusion, if there is no physics that make it unviable, will be here before the end of this century...

Errr, well maybe it will be here before the end of the century, but that's not "soon" in my book. Certainly not soon enough to solve the worlds energy problems before they get started.

 

[fbg1]

Who else in the US even has experimental tokamak research?

Also, didn't a Japanese (?) University come up with a rival to the Tokamak system? I really don't know much on present, applied Fusion research. Anyone know where to find informatioin outside of ITER?

Not sure if this answers your question, but Sandia Labs has a tokomak-alternative called the Z-machine. Here's a recent slashdot post on it:

http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/04/07/2320227&mode=flat&tid=134