R300 the fastest for DoomIII, John Carmack Speaks Again

Status
Not open for further replies.
John Reynolds said:
Problem with interpreting Nvidia's CEO's words is that Nvidia's definition of "new architecture" tends to be a moving target.
Click to expand...

True but from earlier quotes they said the Nv 30 was going to be different architecture...from the link on nvnews...

He states:
The new chip will be manufactured on Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co.'s latest 0.13-micron manufacturing process, Huang said. Huang did not reveal the name or specific features of the chip, but did say it was a fundamentally new architecture from the GeForce 4 Titanium introduced earlier this year.
Click to expand...

Sounds like nv30..
 
OpenGL guy, re the Quake/Quack thing - you're saying it's a bug ? ;)

Just cool it a little OpenGL Guy. We know what it's like to be working for a IHV and the need to be defensive (remember our own Mr Barron at various forums during his 3dfx days? :LOL: ) but we should all know Kristof well enough.

I must say I have a pretty good idea of who's a fan of which company from this thread however! :)
 
Reverend said:
OpenGL guy, re the Quake/Quack thing - you're saying it's a bug
Click to expand...

I won't deny application detection was there (obviously) but the image quality problem was a bug, yes. Now that it's fixed, do you see any real difference in performance? From what I have seen (I never ran the old benchmarks myself, but I do have the latest drivers), the performance has not gone down with the problem fixed and IQ looks fine. I'd say there was a bug in the Quake 3 optimizations.

Just cool it a little OpenGL Guy. We know what it's like to be working for a IHV and the need to be defensive (remember our own Mr Barron at various forums during his 3dfx days? :LOL: ) but we should all know Kristof well enough.
Click to expand...

Sorry I flew off the handle... all this talk of "hacks/cheats/etc." just got under my skin. I know the guys who working on the OpenGL driver wouldn't appreciate their efforts being called hacks :D

I must say I have a pretty good idea of who's a fan of which company from this thread however! :)
Click to expand...

I have no problem with fans, but I'm more interested in facts, not fantasy ;)
 
Yeah, I suppose you're right. But I'll state that I'm not a fan of any company :D

Whoa, Carmack replied to me email! Let's see what he has to say... I'll post his replies later (has to do with some tech questions I asked him).
 
From http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=73&ncid=73&e=9&u=/zd/20020530/tc_zd/896996

Huang said he sees continued market share gains this year leading to more growth. Some of that will come from a new graphics chip slated to arrive in August.

The new chip will be manufactured on Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co.'s latest 0.13-micron manufacturing process, Huang said. Huang did not reveal the name or specific features of the chip, but did say it was a fundamentally new architecture from the GeForce 4 Titanium introduced earlier this year.
Click to expand...

The first part is referring to what sounds like NV28. The SECOND part sounds like they're mixed up and are actually talking about NV30.

If not, they are saying that either NV30 is .13u, or they are saying NV28 is .13u and somehow a "fundamentally new architecture".

Thoughts?
 
Given the fact that this is very early hardware, and that there *were* problems (supposedly the E3 demo was only running at medium quality because of this...), we have every reason to believe that the card in its current incarnation simply would not work very well for anybody actually trying to play the game (not to mention the game itself is most definitely very buggy right now...).
Click to expand...

Did you actually read his comments completely? He stated that they had some issue, But it was RESOLVED. However not wanting to temp fate, he left it alone.
 
Hmmm....

That's a pretty bizarre news story. I can't make heads or tails of where and when Huang said what. Today? Monday? Last month at the Merrill Lynch conference? What "chip conference" was he at today?

There is actually no quote in that news story that is along the lines of "today, Huang said that the next gen product expected to launch in August."
 
actually, not wanting to brag.... ;)

I have had Two emails I sent to John Carmack Responded to, and One from Tod Hollenshed... Also had a nice conversation with Dean Devlin who made ID4 and Godzilla (Centropolis).

8)
 
OpenGL guy,

Regardless of whether or not you work at a given company's janitorial services, it's no excuse for taking anyone's words out of context and then accusing them of bias/company-hater. Kristof was simply saying what he thought ATI did to run Doom III at the speed they wanted.

And yes, he said 'tweak,' not hacks or cheats - you brought that up in some inferiority-complexed cry blabber. I really don't see how you got all riled up over 'tweaks.' Tweaks = Good. Anyway, I think you are just too hypersensitive over the most minor comments towards ATI. Anything near the affect a Dog breaking wind toward's ATI will spark your redlights.

-dksuiko
 
Doomtrooper said:
I would say for a 8500 LE that is very close to your scores, even with FSAA, its only when 4X FSAA is when the 8500 starts to lose significantly,
Click to expand...

My machine beat his with 2x FSAA and max aniso. This is the true strength of the GeForce4 Ti cards...aniso+FSAA has less of a performance hit than either enabled alone.

as seen on Rage3D with RTCW shots..it took tweaking of the lod to -1.3-1.5 ...LOD affects frames quite a bit.
Click to expand...

Yes, I saw that thread a while ago. Those shots look absolutely terrible with adjusted LOD. The texture aliasing was very apparent to me. You can be certain it was far more obvious in motion.
 
Joe DeFuria said:
Hmmm....

That's a pretty bizarre news story. I can't make heads or tails of where and when Huang said what. Today? Monday? Last month at the Merrill Lynch conference? What "chip conference" was he at today?

There is actually no quote in that news story that is along the lines of "today, Huang said that the next gen product expected to launch in August."
Click to expand...

The article says:
Speaking on Wednesday at a chip conference here, Huang characterized the relationship with Microsoft as "very strong," adding, "We just asked a third party to help us solve some stuff."

Nvidia disclosed Monday that it was in arbitration with Microsoft over the pricing ...
Click to expand...

A quick glance at Yahoo Finance reveals that arbitration disclosure took place on Monday, April 29. Hence "Wednesday" the article talks about is May 2. Its one month old, folks.
 
Joe DeFuria said:
Its one month old, folks.
Click to expand...

Nyah, Nyah...I figured it out before you did. ;) Now someone tell NVNews...
Click to expand...

And I figured It out before you even started thinking about reading the article :p, I just didn't bother to post it. I don't think there is a need to tell NVnews since half their crew hangs out here.
 
Chalnoth said:
Doomtrooper said:
I would say for a 8500 LE that is very close to your scores, even with FSAA, its only when 4X FSAA is when the 8500 starts to lose significantly,
Click to expand...

My machine beat his with 2x FSAA and max aniso. This is the true strength of the GeForce4 Ti cards...aniso+FSAA has less of a performance hit than either enabled alone.

as seen on Rage3D with RTCW shots..it took tweaking of the lod to -1.3-1.5 ...LOD affects frames quite a bit.
Click to expand...

Yes, I saw that thread a while ago. Those shots look absolutely terrible with adjusted LOD. The texture aliasing was very apparent to me. You can be certain it was far more obvious in motion.
Click to expand...

The strength of the 8500 is high resolution - 1600 x1200 with Max Anistropic, the 8500 takes a 25-28% performance hit while the G4's takes 50-60% peformance hit.
Yes you did beat him by a bit, not bad for a $120 US Radeon 8500 LE, not to mention a higher default FPS without any FSAA or Anistropic :)
 
Doomtrooper said:
The strength of the 8500 is high resolution - 1600 x1200 with Max Anistropic, the 8500 takes a 25-28% performance hot while the G4's takes 50-60% peformance hit.
Click to expand...

My GeForce4 did not takea 50-60% performance hit from enabling max aniso, at any resolution.

Yes you did beat him by a bit, not bad for a $120 US Radeon LE.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm happy with my choice. I have yet to have any significant issues with my GF4, and I'd rather have the higher-quality aniso anyway.
 
Chalnoth said:
Doomtrooper said:
The strength of the 8500 is high resolution - 1600 x1200 with Max Anistropic, the 8500 takes a 25-28% performance hot while the G4's takes 50-60% peformance hit.
Click to expand...

My GeForce4 did not takea 50-60% performance hit from enabling max aniso, at any resolution.

Yes you did beat him by a bit, not bad for a $120 US Radeon LE.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm happy with my choice. I have yet to have any significant issues with my GF4, and I'd rather have the higher-quality aniso anyway.
Click to expand...

What makes your Geforce 4 so special ?? Many review sites show more than a 50% hit ?? Its been proven, Direct 3D games still take a huge hit.

1021496293VpOPAtbIeW_3_1.gif

game3-anis-ph.png
 
Aniso filtering is supposed to be a driver bug, I've noticed steady improvements on my GF4 from the 28.xx to 29.xx, and he apparently is running 33.xx which I haven't had a chance to use, so maybe they "fixed" the bug (if there was one -- maybe they're cheating now?)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top