Question regarding Console and PC disk streaming

When some of us were have that "How much ram" debate....

A couple of you mentioned disk streaming techniques that consoles currently employ, as in from DVD and BluRay. At the same time, some of you also implied that PC's are generally less suited or less equipped to do this.

Is this true, or did I somehow receive the wrong message or information.
And if it is true....can you briefly explain to me why this is true? How or why are PC's less equipped than Consoles for Disk Streaming?

Thank you.
 
Sorry for answering a question with a question, but why would you want to stream from disc on a PC?

They tend to have more than enough hard drive space for a full install. I don't remember a game streaming anything from disc in the last 10 years or more, and before then it was CD quality background music.
 
That's your answer just there. There's no need to have streaming off optical on a PC where you can provide a full HDD install, and games are streamed from HDD only not always in the same way a console does because there's often lots of RAM for storing the currently needed assets which are 'streamed' from system RAM to VRAM. Consoles have had to pursue streaming from optical as an HDD was prohibitively expensive for a future low-cost SKU. Any console that chose to have an HDD standard in every SKU could go with full installs only like PC and not require the optical disk at all.
 
Any console that chose to have an HDD standard in every SKU could go with full installs only like PC and not require the optical disk at all.
Isnt the 360's game installation a method similar to this? The game disk is only required so that you have to buy a copy to be able to play it, right?
 
But it can't be used by developers as standard as they have to support non-HDD SKUs, or people playing without HDD install. Hence all 360 games still need to be designed to use the optical drive as the primary feed of game data. BF3 is introducing the option of using the HDD for streaming. PS3 has supported that option from the off to some degree, although limited space in the earliest SKUs means devs couldn't sometimes couldn't aim for large installs. Hence MGS4 couldn't be installed and run from HDD. :(
 
All PCs have hard drives, and usually the hard drives are considerably larger than console hard drives. Digital distribution is also a common way to distribute brand new top selling retail PC games. Many Steam games match the DVD size (some are over 10 GB), and are directly downloaded to your HDD. It's easier just to include an installer to the DVD version of the game that copies the game to the hard drive. Now the game can always assume it's installed to the hard drive, and the streaming technology can assume much better seek times and better bandwidth. This of course reduces the testing and fine tuning time (there's already too many different PC configurations).

Streaming from DVD has more variable performance (seek times are pretty random) compared to steady HDD performance. Many laptops also spin down the disc pretty quickly to conserve battery. If the disc is stopped, a read from it can block for several seconds. That wouldn't be much fun during a huge firefight in a competitive multiplayer game.

Of course if the game includes large compressed video files (that are not used inside the game), streaming those from the optical disc is a good choice. Optical discs have good sequential performance (video and music streaming for example), but random access performance is just bad (interactive gaming sequences have unpredictable access based on player's actions).

Also PC developers can safely allocate more memory than the system actually has. Virtual memory guarantees that allocations do not fail, as the memory area is automatically expanded to the PC hard drive. The performance of course suffers if the system has to swap a lot of data to the hard drive, but the game still works properly on all computers, even on those low end laptops. This is one reason why games that are designed solely for PC platform do not necessarily have to include any kind of HDD streaming system. But for the best performance, HDD streaming is a better bet than counting on virtual memory swapping. When you have your own streaming system integrated to the game, you have much more knowledge when to start loading the data you will need in the near future. If you count just on virtual memory swapping, there will be stalls and stuttering in the game performance, since the OS virtual memory system has no knowledge on the data you will need in the near future. With your own streaming system you can (almost) always predict right and preload everything just before you need it = fluid gameplay with no stalls and no object/texture popping.
 
Does anyone actually do that on PC? I always felt devs would just throw requirements at a PC and if it struggled, expect someone to invest in better hardware! Surely the solution to poor VM performance is to upgrade your PC with an SSD, rather than do any efficient programming? :p
 
Does anyone actually do that on PC?
Of course they use HDD streaming, if they use cross platform technology that runs on both PC and consoles. Why not use streaming if your technology already supports it, and all the console version testing have been done with streaming used? Wouldn't it be just easier to use the existing streaming technology on PC as well? Majority of PCs sold currently are laptops. If the game runs better on lower spec'd computers you get more potential customers. As the game is already designed to use streaming, it would not be much a gain to remove that from the PC version.
 
Wow, I've never seen so many posts by sebbbi on one day.
They're all very informative too.

I'm guessing that you must be closer to releasing the new Trials.
TBH, I never finished the first one, but admit it was very addictive.

MP, may be the hook I need for me to stay with this one.
 
Wow, I've never seen so many posts by sebbbi on one day.
They're all very informative too.
It was Sunday, I was not at work and my wife had so much work to finish before Monday (she's doing her doctoral thesis and teaching at university). So I used the time to browse internet and spam the forums :)
 
sebbbi said:
As the game is already designed to use streaming, it would not be much a gain to remove that from the PC version.
As long as the streaming system doesn't have some bizarro dependency that only happens to function "well" on console.

And no - I'm not just being hypothetical. :???:
 
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