PS3 and VGA?

[willardjuice]

Prior to this gen, every console ever sold worked with the existing display technology in your house.

But that's because things just happened to work out nicely. CRT monitors and SD TV's both had the same aspect ratio; in addition, CRT monitors didn't have a "native resolution". It's not like monitor companies went out of their way to add console support, nor did Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo go out of their way to add support for monitors. That of course all changed with HD TV's and LCD monitors.

They are targeting anyone intersted in buying their consoles.

To a degree. That's a lot of work they have to put in (especially for Sony since they don't have a dedicated scaling chip IIRC) for (what I assume) is a pretty small market. Microsoft and Sony have to prioritize their resources; I can't imagine "monitor support" is high on their list.

but a very few people around me knows that they can hook up their 360 to monitors...

There are five people on my dorm floor that have Xbox 360's. All of them have it hooked up to their monitors with proper scaling.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

But that's because things just happened to work out nicely. CRT monitors and SD TV's both had the same aspect ratio; in addition, CRT monitors didn't have a "native resolution". It's not like monitor companies went out of their way to add console support...

I meant solely the TV, not monitors. I dunno about anyone using their Sega Master System on a CRT monitor! And it didn't just work out nicely. TV put the display technology in every home, and the console companies made hardware that worked well with those displays. They even went so far as to include scaling...well, they rendered to undersized buffers and output blocky pixels. But you never had to worry about getting a console home and having the output stretched and squeezed and just not work on your TV.

To a degree. That's a lot of work they have to put in (especially for Sony since they don't have a dedicated scaling chip IIRC) for (what I assume) is a pretty small market.

At the design phase they should have considered monitors and included the necessary hardware. The lack of a scaling chip has impacted more than their ability to hook up to monitors and was a poor choice.

There are five people on my dorm floor that have Xbox 360's. All of them have it hooked up to their monitors with proper scaling.

Here's a good example of why its important IMO. The dorm situation is one where you expect kids to have a high res display for their PC (if they haven't a laptop) and being able to run your console on that display is a big plus point. These same people wouldn't be running PS3 on their monitors...

 

[willardjuice]

I meant solely the TV, not monitors. TV put the display technology in every home, and the console companies made hardware that worked well with those displays... But you never had to worry about getting a console home and having the output stretched and squeezed and just not work on your TV.

Then nothing has changed. What TV does not work with consoles?

At the design phase they should have considered monitors and included the necessary hardware.

The PS3 already costs Sony enough. I'm not sure if they really wanted to increase the cost to manufacture a PS3 for such (IMO) a little market. Not to mention Sony and Microsoft have other (dare I say more important) ideas that they want to work on for their consoles.

Here's a good example of why its important IMO. The dorm situation is one where you expect kids to have a high res display for their PC (if they haven't a laptop) and being able to run your console on that display is a big plus point. These same people wouldn't be running PS3 on their monitors...

But even this is a special case because when they go home they use their TVs. As to PS3, I'm the only one that has it so I can't comment on how many of their monitors actually support it (mine does). Don't essentially all new PS3 games support 720P now (just some older ones don't?)?

 

[cthellis42]

The point of my highly sarcastic response to your comment "I wouldn't call that working" is that you greatly over-exaggerate. It sounds very stuck-up. Your advice is valuable, but why not simply start with asking xerks what kind of monitor he intends to use, and warn him that some configurations aren't going to work optimally?

Quite honestly, anyone inquiring about "VGA support" is really asking "will it work like my PC?" You can use converters and cable and adaptors to make anything go through anything else if you want, but the real concern is "will it mess up on my monitor, or can I adjust it as I can do with any PC graphics card since the dawn of time?"

The answer for all consoles right now is, "no, not really." You can give general rules as to what to look for when buying monitors if console play is a central issue, but on the matter of "working VGA support:" "working" is what our computers do. "can function, provided you know what you're getting into" is what consoles do.

Which is, in a word, "dumb" in this day and age. It is NOT a huge headache to support it on most levels.

 

[Tisan]

So out of complete confusion, I ask you:

If I plug an HDMI->DVI cable from the PS3 into a DVI->VGA plug (one of the ones which come with video cards) and that into the back of my VGA only CRT Monitor, will I get a signal?

My monitor is above the necessary resolutions, and I can shrink the display to the appropriate aspect ratio.
I'm thinking of doing this while I save for an LCD.

 

[Arwin]

No, you have to use something like the XCM device mentioned above. HDMI->DVI is basically HDMI-DVI-D(igital). Whereas DVI->VGA is DVI-A(nalog) to VGA.

What you need is a component cable for the PS3, and then have a component to VGA device. This afaik is what the XCM device basically is, though I imagine that other Component to VGA solutions might work as well.

You can see it on this picture, that that's basically what the XCM device is:

 

[Tisan]

Ahhhh thanks Arwin, I wasn't aware of A & D versions of DVI.

Guess I'll just be saving then :]

 

[dustNbone]

All of the discussion i've read on this thread seems to focus on LCD monitors, and i'm wondering what the incentive would be for using an analog signal (VGA) to communicate a digitally generated image (the PS3 or any other console) to a digitally controlled display (LCD, Plasma, etc). HDMI/DVI-D seems the obvious choice, and most recent LCD monitors will accept and somehow process a digital 1080p signal, cropping/resizing to whatever their native resolution is. The results will vary depending on the monitors internal capabilities either way (VGA input or DVI), but you incur two extra (D/A and A/D) conversions using the VGA route for a digital display, not to mention substantially more expensive cabling compared to DVI/HDMI. There are older LCD monitors that only have VGA inputs, these are becoming rare, and most of them aren't that great of a display to begin with in my experience.

Where a VGA signal would be useful, and herein my question lies, would be to drive a CRT that CAN display a 1080p (1920x1080@60hz+) signal, as most of these displays (such as my 24" 16:10 Trinitron) only have VGA inputs (actually mine has BNC R-G-B inputs as well, but that's quite rare), and need an analog signal which directly drives the CRT. I am curious if there is a high quality method of getting a VGA signal (even sync-on-green is acceptable) from the PS3, or is HDCP part of the equation requiring some sort of HDMI/DVI-D in and VGA out box with an HDCP workaround inside it?

I am interested in the PS3, but i'm not really interested in buying a digital display to play it, as i'm just not impressed by the quality of anything i've seen in the LCD or plasma markets. The Trinitron still rules the roost in terms of image quality and i don't care if it takes up alot of space, uses a ton of power and is the primary heat source for my office. It's pretty and i want to play PS3 on it. Oh and Bluray would be a nice bonus and save me from needing seperate PC hardware. Good thread.