Philosophy behind Al Qaeda?

[Natoma]

So why hasnt the peaceful part of islam not tried to revolt against this? Or will the violent islamist just resort to more najah style bombings against those who want peace?

later,

This statement coming from a practicing hindu is supremely hypocritical. Have you protested against the violent parts of hinduism as they've murdered countless thousands in Kashmir in order to take it from the muslims?

Muslims and Hindus are guilty of atrocities in that area of the world. Have you protested against this?

 

[nelg]

Natoma, AFAIK Saudi Arabia is very wealthy.
Sazar, I think you missed a zero on that $11 billion figure. Israel has a neighbor who gets more than $4 billion a year. Yet the populace seem rather ungrateful.

 

[Natoma]

pax wrote:

Well obviously we dont have as much a prob but we also have a lot more freedom to do something about such extremist violence probs when they do happen. If America was only educated thru foxnews as a media source Im not so sure we'd be any better off than those arabs who only have state news or al jazeera... People need solid info before they can act and freedom of action to act against violent minorities.

What "freedom of action to act" do we have that they don't? What do you mean?

Considering that protests against the government are met with armed guards shooting into crowds to disperse them, I'd consider that a tremendous lack of an outlet to express discontent.

It's the bait and switch tactic that many islamic governments have used for decades. Instead of focusing their people on the problems at home, they let them protest against the great satan, aka the United States and Israel. But if protests occur against the government itself, they squash it, redirecting all of the hatred toward the US and Israel.

 

[Natoma]

Natoma, AFAIK Saudi Arabia is very wealthy.
Sazar, I think you missed a zero on that $11 billion figure. Israel has a neighbor who gets more than $4 billion a year. Yet the populace seem rather ungrateful.

nelg, Saudi Arabia has a vast wealthy "family" numbering in the thousands. The vast majority of the nation live in squalor.

 

[Natoma]

I dont agree epic about painting them with the ethnic brush of they are widely supporting terrorists because they are arabs or muslims.

I dont believe I have stated that every muslim/arab is a terrorist. However I do believe that until all the peacefull muslims/arabs rise up against the violent minority that they are just as culpable(sp?).

Something else that I truly believe: the next [insert random number between 10-50] terrorist attacks will be by muslim extremists.

later,
epic

Epic, then every religion in the world is guilty of mass atrocities against humankind.

The Crusades
Kashmir
The Inquisitions
Al-Qaeda
All the wars of extermination the jews fought in the Old Testament to clear their land of non-believers

To brand an entire religion is foolhardy at best. I suppose I can understand considering you are a hindu, and the problems that hindus and muslims have had for the past half century since the decolonization of India/Pakistan, but you should at least show some sympathy and understanding to the situation, especially considering the horrors occurring in Kashmir.

Should I brand your religion as a religion of terrorism and horror simply because of what's going on there? Should I brand Christianity as a religion of terrorism and horror because of what occurred during the Vietnam war? Should I brand Judaism as a religion of terrorism and horror because of the atrocities committed against the palestinians?

 

[epicstruggle]

This statement coming from a practicing hindu is supremely hypocritical. Have you protested against the violent parts of hinduism as they've murdered countless thousands in Kashmir in order to take it from the muslims?

Muslims and Hindus are guilty of atrocities in that area of the world. Have you protested against this?

Yes I am a practicing hindu, but I am not an extremist hindu. I give donations to my wifes version of hinduism (Jay Swaminarayan) which is extremely peceaful. There have been at least one terrorist act against their temple. Yet they still advocate peaceful coexistance with other people/religion. I have also spoken out against muslim-hindu violence. And I think they (leaders) should evenly split kashmir.

later,
epic

 

[Natoma]

This statement coming from a practicing hindu is supremely hypocritical. Have you protested against the violent parts of hinduism as they've murdered countless thousands in Kashmir in order to take it from the muslims?

Muslims and Hindus are guilty of atrocities in that area of the world. Have you protested against this?

Yes I am a practicing hindu, but I am not an extremist hindu. I give donations to my wifes version of hinduism (Jay Swaminarayan) which is extremely peceaful. There have been at least one terrorist act against their temple. Yet they still advocate peaceful coexistance with other people/religion. I have also spoken out against muslim-hindu violence. And I think they (leaders) should evenly split kashmir.

later,
epic

And do you honestly believe that the majority of the 1 billion practicing muslims are extremist??? Just as you would paint islam as a religion that is guilty of all the atrocities a very tiny and extremist sect commit, should you not be guilty as well by that same logic for the atrocities committed by Hindus? Come on now.

 

[pax]

Natoma, AFAIK Saudi Arabia is very wealthy.
Sazar, I think you missed a zero on that $11 billion figure. Israel has a neighbor who gets more than $4 billion a year. Yet the populace seem rather ungrateful.

That money mostly goes to prop up relatively unpopular dictatorial regimes. And the Jordanian regime was for a long time publicly unpopular in the mostly palestinian country where we saw serious revolts in the 1970's which were crushed leaving thousands dead.

Average saudi makes about half the income of the average american. Which means in the ladder of income a lot more are poor on average than here. Our perception of the saudis is clouded by the small oil kingoms like Kuwait and Qatar where most are well off or rich even by our standards.

 

[epicstruggle]

Epic, then every religion in the world is guilty of mass atrocities against humankind.

Yes you are correct. Although I dont think that Hindus, Bhudist, Taos(i think thats the name of that asian religion) are guildty of mass atrocities. Please enlighten me if I am mistaken.

The Crusades
Kashmir
The Inquisitions
Al-Qaeda
All the wars of extermination the jews fought in the Old Testament to clear their land of non-believers

I guess Ill state that Im:
Anti-Crusaders
Pro-splitting kashmir
Anti-Inquisition
Anti-Al-Qaeda
Anti-Jew-in-Old-Testament-killing-non-believers
8)

To brand an entire religion is foolhardy at best. I suppose I can understand considering you are a hindu, and the problems that hindus and muslims have had for the past half century since the decolonization of India/Pakistan, but you should at least show some sympathy and understanding to the situation, especially considering the horrors occurring in Kashmir.

So you think that there will be a terrorist act that is not caused by muslim extremists. Because I very much doubt you can make a case that what I said was wrong.

later,
epic

 

[epicstruggle]

And do you honestly believe that the majority of the 1 billion practicing muslims are extremist??? Just as you would paint islam as a religion that is guilty of all the atrocities a very tiny and extremist sect commit, should you not be guilty as well by that same logic for the atrocities committed by Hindus? Come on now.

According too many polls there is more than a very tiny percentage that would really like to see every jew killed or driven off israeli land. Do you disagree with what i just said.

Some of the largest muslim charities are either run by or funnel some of their money to terrorist organizations. And I think you would agree they are funded by everyday muslims.

I think that the mainstream muslims should actively fight this hostile takeover of their religion. I think I hold a majority view (in america) that muslims should be more active against terrorist acts, and speak out against some of the extremist views.

later,
epic

 

[nelg]

Natoma, AFAIK Saudi Arabia is very wealthy.
Sazar, I think you missed a zero on that $11 billion figure. Israel has a neighbor who gets more than $4 billion a year. Yet the populace seem rather ungrateful.

nelg, Saudi Arabia has a vast wealthy "family" numbering in the thousands. The vast majority of the nation live in squalor.

That's not the impression that I have been given by someone who had lived there. I 'm not suggesting that it is like the west but I would usually save descriptions like "The vast majority of the nation live in squalor" to nations such as Afghanastan. OTOH I will say that I have no first hand knowledge of life in Saudi Arabia so ,yes , the GDP could be skewed by distrubution.

 

[Natoma]

Hindus are most certainly guilty of atrocities against Muslims.

Kashmir is one. The Babri Mosque slaughter in 1992, killing roughly 2000 muslims simply for worshipping at a religious temple and not wanting it to be demolished, is another. ~900 muslims were killed trying to prevent the destruction of Ayodhya mosque. The mosque slaughters occurred in India itself. And this doesn't even cover the hardships of being a muslim living in a Hindu Theocracy.

And that's just after a couple of minutes of googling.

Anyways, the point is not saying that the next terrorist acts will probably not be caused by muslim extremists. I am not in disagreement. Hello the largest terrorist organizations today are indeed muslim in nature. However, I do take umbrage with your comment that all of islam is guilty for Al-Qaeda's actions.

That is a completely irresponsible statement to make, and utterly hypocritical considering your lack of ability to stop hindu extremists from killing muslims. Is muslim blood on your hands Mr. Hindu? Is the blood of dead iraqis on the hands of every christian in the United States? Is the blood of dead vietnamese on the hands of every christian in the United States?

I should think not.

 

[Natoma]

And do you honestly believe that the majority of the 1 billion practicing muslims are extremist??? Just as you would paint islam as a religion that is guilty of all the atrocities a very tiny and extremist sect commit, should you not be guilty as well by that same logic for the atrocities committed by Hindus? Come on now.

According too many polls there is more than a very tiny percentage that would really like to see every jew killed or driven off israeli land. Do you disagree with what i just said.

Some of the largest muslim charities are either run by or funnel some of their money to terrorist organizations. And I think you would agree they are funded by everyday muslims.

I think that the mainstream muslims should actively fight this hostile takeover of their religion. I think I hold a majority view (in america) that muslims should be more active against terrorist acts, and speak out against some of the extremist views.

later,
epic

Lets say that 10 million muslims are pro-jew destruction and pro-terrorism. That's not small amount of people. Frankly it's enough for a small country. And surely that is an overstatement of those who support and fund terrorism. And yet, out of a practicing 1 Billion worldwide, that is 1% of the population.

If you're going to make a grand sweeping statement that more than a tiny percentage of muslims support terrorism and violence against non-muslims, I want to see the proof and the statistics. Because right now you're talking out your ass.

 

[epicstruggle]

Because right now you're talking out your ass.

Im suprised that you can say this, since your talking with your eyes firmly shut.

later,
epic

 

[Natoma]

Because right now you're talking out your ass.

Im suprised that you can say this, since your talking with your eyes firmly shut.

later,
epic

If this is your final answer on this topic, that's more damning than anything you've said in this thread on the subject, and frankly quite sad.

 

[Silent_One]

pax wrote;

This one shouldnt be too hard for anyone who knows the countries in the area and how long the regimes that run them have been in power... I think we are a little spoiled with our 200 year old democracies in the west... tahir said it quite well, the wahabi's long term influence in the region is one of the reasons we dont see real political involvement of the populace.

Sorry I'm not clairvoyant as to what you meant. Perhaps you should be clearer in what you write.
Natoma wrote:

Considering that protests against the government are met with armed guards shooting into crowds to disperse them, I'd consider that a tremendous lack of an outlet to express discontent.

Thank you natoma. If that's what pax meant, then your answer makes sence.

 

[epicstruggle]

Because right now you're talking out your ass.

Im suprised that you can say this, since your talking with your eyes firmly shut.

later,
epic

If this is your final answer on this topic, that's more damning than anything you've said in this thread on the subject, and frankly quite sad.

That was a great responce to a great line from you. I guess you took the high road right?

later,
epic

 

[Natoma]

You're the one making asinine comments condemning 1 billion muslims for the actions of Al-Qaeda. I simply want you to back up those statements that you seem to want to throw out so flippantly. Again,

Lets say that 10 million muslims are pro-jew destruction and pro-terrorism. That's not small amount of people. Frankly it's enough for a small country. And surely that is an overstatement of those who support and fund terrorism. And yet, out of a practicing 1 Billion worldwide, that is 1% of the population.

If you're going to make a grand sweeping statement that more than a tiny percentage of muslims support terrorism and violence against non-muslims, I want to see the proof and the statistics. Because right now you're talking out your ass.

and

Anyways, the point is not saying that the next terrorist acts will probably not be caused by muslim extremists. I am not in disagreement. Hello the largest terrorist organizations today are indeed muslim in nature. However, I do take umbrage with your comment that all of islam is guilty for Al-Qaeda's actions.

If you're going to make statements that a good portion of Islam suports terrorism, back it up. Until then, you are indeed talking out your ass.

 

[epicstruggle]

Lets say that 10 million muslims are pro-jew destruction and pro-terrorism. That's not small amount of people. Frankly it's enough for a small country. And surely that is an overstatement of those who support and fund terrorism. And yet, out of a practicing 1 Billion worldwide, that is 1% of the population.

If you're going to make a grand sweeping statement that more than a tiny percentage of muslims support terrorism and violence against non-muslims, I want to see the proof and the statistics. Because right now you're talking out your ass.

Ok so i did a quick 5 minute google search and here we go.

source:http://www.iht.com/articles/98399.htm

As for the crisis in the Middle East, in a wave of sentiment that bodes ill for the future of the U.S.-sponsored "road map" to peace, Muslims lined up strongly behind the opinion that "the rights and needs of the Palestinian people cannot be taken care of as long as the state of Israel exists."

The conviction that no way can be found for Israel and the Palestinians to coexist is strongest in Morocco (90 percent), followed by Jordan (85 percent), the Palestinian Authority (80 percent), Kuwait (72 percent), Lebanon (65 percent), Indonesia (58 percent) and Pakistan (57 percent).

I think somehow youll argue that the numbers emphasied really mean 1 or 2%. Or that they are a minority in the respect countries. BTW there was another poll that I was referring too, but cant seem to find that showed a more damming picture. Will look for it later,

epic.

 

[Natoma]

That poll you posted has nothing to do with those people espousing violence against Jews and funding terrorism. They are stating that they don't think there's any way to be found for the Israel/Palestine conflict to be resolved.

That is a reflection of the failed attempts at peace, not a support for terrorism.

"The conviction that no way can be found for Israel and the Palestinians to coexist"

This is a feeling of hopelessness wrt the situation in the middle east, not support for terrorism. If you're going to post polls, at least know what the heck they're trying to discover.