Philosophy behind Al Qaeda?

[RussSchultz]

Here's an interesting article about the philosophical basis for Al Qaeda. I stumbled upon it while lost in a maze of weblogs.

http://www.wehaitians.com/the philosopher of islamic terror.html

I wonder how much this is the basis for Al Qaeda's support, as opposed to the oft claimed "America is an imperialist nation and it reaps what it sows" train of thought.

Anyways, enjoy. I did.

 

[John Reynolds]

The author is certainly correct in stating that Bush is absolutely not the man to wage a war of ideas.

 

[Silent_One]

I wrote:

In an interesting article written in The New York Times Magiazine on March 23, 2003, "The Philosopher of Islamic Terror" the author Paul Berman wrote of the etiology of the current terrorists philosophy. The philosopher, named Sayyid Qutb, wrote, while in Egyptian prison, what has come to be the guide, if you will, of Al Qaeda: he is their Karl Marx.

Sayyid Qutb wrote that his social idea for muslims was "Islamist". He wanted to turn Islam into a political movement to create a new society to be based upon ancient Koranic Principals. This is the "social mechanism" that the Islamic Jihad and others operate by. There is a differance between Islam, the religion, and the Islamist, which is a political movement. The religion is peacefull. The Islamist is not.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewt...r=asc&highlight=sayyid qutbs&start=40

 

[epicstruggle]

So why hasnt the peaceful part of islam not tried to revolt against this? Or will the violent islamist just resort to more najah style bombings against those who want peace?

later,

 

[pax]

Do we revolt against the numerous radical, racist ect. sects that pervade our own society? We only care when they get rowdy like Waco. many mulsims are fighting al quaeda. If you think they arent doing enough then maybe we should read more arabic newspapers... Or take into consideration the vast diffs tween the societies they live vs ours. The certainly dont have freedom of political action we do.

 

[epicstruggle]

Do we revolt against the numerous radical, racist ect. sects that pervade our own society? We only care when they get rowdy like Waco.

First our radicals arent fighting our govermnent/ideals/society with suicide/homicide bombers. The exceptions and not the rule are the unibomber and the Oklohoma bombing. The waco thing should not be considered in the same league as they really wanted to just be left alone in their farm compound.

many mulsims are fighting al quaeda.

ahhh, yes just like the saudis right?

If you think they arent doing enough then maybe we should read more arabic newspapers... Or take into consideration the vast diffs tween the societies they live vs ours. The certainly dont have freedom of political action we do.

Yes there are many who do fight on our side, but how often do you hear of some muslim(in the middle east) speaking against the tactics/goals of the extremists. How about all the fair and balanced coverage the aljazzer(sp?) network has. If you think the fox network is slanted the networks in the middle east could show fox how to slant news in a whole new way.

later,

 

[DemoCoder]

Do we revolt against the numerous radical, racist ect. sects that pervade our own society? We only care when they get rowdy like Waco. many mulsims are fighting al quaeda. If you think they arent doing enough then maybe we should read more arabic newspapers... Or take into consideration the vast diffs tween the societies they live vs ours. The certainly dont have freedom of political action we do.

The Waco/Ruby Ridge/et al people harmed no one. Their only crime was possessing guns that the gun grabbers thought they shouldn't have, and their attempt to invade other people's property to confiscate them. Not that I agree with the white separatists at Ruby Ridge, but they were living there peacefully until the government came and killed Weaver's wife and sun.

The only comparable religious killers we have are the anti-abortion nut-cases, but the vast majority of religious Americans speak out against these attacks, rather than try to defend/excuse them -- with the exception of nuts like Robertson/Falwell.

There is simply nothing comparable in the US. Our level of dosmetic terrorism is off the radar, which is why we were caught so off guard by the attacks on the continent.

 

[Silent_One]

So why hasnt the peaceful part of islam not tried to revolt against this? Or will the violent islamist just resort to more najah style bombings against those who want peace?

1.) The voilence islamists are motivated by many sources: resentment of America's support of Israel, the frustrations of arab youth of their own lack of freedom and jobs, the (one sided) Arab TV images of Israeli brutalizing Palestinians. The radicals believe that they can, through demographics and terrorism, destroy Israel and even undermine America.

2.) Untill the passive moderates of the Israelis, Palestinians, Americans, and Muslims are ready and act against the voilent minority, the minority will have their way. This means Israel uprooting the settelments, the Palestinians uprooting Hamas, and the Arab regimes dealing with the fundamentlists.

 

[pax]

Well obviously we dont have as much a prob but we also have a lot more freedom to do something about such extremist violence probs when they do happen. If America was only educated thru foxnews as a media source Im not so sure we'd be any better off than those arabs who only have state news or al jazeera... People need solid info before they can act and freedom of action to act against violent minorities.

I dont agree epic about painting them with the ethnic brush of they are widely supporting terrorists because they are arabs or muslims.

 

[Willmeister]

We also live in a much more prosperous society. If our society was as poor as theirs, as uneducated as theirs, we'd no doubt be suffering from a similar type of radical group, or groups. Superstition still holds many people in it's grip. Most of the arguments these 'leaders' use would be very ineffective in our society. They'd get strange looks from the masses, even when public education is such a sad state. Our public education system is not geared to promote ideology and this helps keep a lot of the more radical elements at bay. This is one critical difference between our society and theirs. In many of the states in the region, there really is no public education, and if there is, it is very strictly controlled by the leadership. In some cases, the poor can attend free madrassas.

 

[Silent_One]

pax wrote:

Well obviously we dont have as much a prob but we also have a lot more freedom to do something about such extremist violence probs when they do happen. If America was only educated thru foxnews as a media source Im not so sure we'd be any better off than those arabs who only have state news or al jazeera... People need solid info before they can act and freedom of action to act against violent minorities.

What "freedom of action to act" do we have that they don't? What do you mean?

 

[nelg]

We also live in a much more prosperous society. If our society was as poor as theirs, as uneducated as theirs, we'd no doubt be suffering from a similar type of radical group, or groups.

So how does this apply to Saudi Arabia ?

 

[epicstruggle]

I dont agree epic about painting them with the ethnic brush of they are widely supporting terrorists because they are arabs or muslims.

I dont believe I have stated that every muslim/arab is a terrorist. However I do believe that until all the peacefull muslims/arabs rise up against the violent minority that they are just as culpable(sp?).

Something else that I truly believe: the next [insert random number between 10-50] terrorist attacks will be by muslim extremists.

later,
epic

 

[DemoCoder]

We also live in a much more prosperous society. If our society was as poor as theirs, as uneducated as theirs, we'd no doubt be suffering from a similar type of radical group, or groups. Superstition still holds many people in it's grip. Most of the arguments these 'leaders' use would be very ineffective in our society. They'd get strange looks from the masses, even when public education is such a sad state. Our public education system is not geared to promote ideology and this helps keep a lot of the more radical elements at bay. This is one critical difference between our society and theirs. In many of the states in the region, there really is no public education, and if there is, it is very strictly controlled by the leadership. In some cases, the poor can attend free madrassas.

The terrorists on septemeber 11th weren't poor. Middle class saudis brainwashed by Wahhabism funded by Saudi oil money to prevent the overthrow of the royal family. Bin Laden's family are the Walton's of the middle east. Certainly not underprivileged.

 

[Tahir2]

The founder of the Wahhabi movement sometimes called Salafi was an extreme person, and to him I would not even be classed as a muslim and he would have waged war and made my property and life legal for the taking.

He basically stated that all muslims before him and those that did not follow his way of thinking were kafr (non-believers). Who was his most ardent supporter? Mr Saud himself of course, a governor of a province of what is now known as Saudi Arabia. An eminent scholar went as far as saying that Abd'al Wahhab had a hidden agenda and could not state Islam was the wrong path but did the next best thing and claim all its followers were wrong and kafr.

It is the responsibility of Ahl-al Sunna Wa Jama'a to act against these people and to educate the ignorant muslims to stick to the Way of the Prophet and the Community (meaning of Ahl-al Sunna Wa Jama'a).
As for someone's constant comments I can quite easily reverse what he has said and hold him accountable for the atrocities of the 'West.' This is one of the ways, again, to make my life legal for the taking and is IMHO just another extremist view and is best ignored.

I hate it when people mix up Al-Qaeda with Islam and judge an entire religion through the acts of a group of people that are acting against Islam IMHO.

 

[jvd]

The simple way to do this is to just say good bye and just not help out anyone else . That way we are no the big evil america. Lets see how they fair when we don't send thier countrys billions in aid.

 

[Sazar]

The simple way to do this is to just say good bye and just not help out anyone else . That way we are no the big evil america. Lets see how they fair when we don't send thier countrys billions in aid.

I presume you do not see this condascending view as somehow being one of the roots of the 'problem' that exists of people in the world having a generally neutral/negative view of america as a nation ?

considering the billions in aid... japan gives out a heck of a lot of foreign aid... the USA totals around $11 billion I believe in 2002...v/s $10 billion from Japan.. a smaller nation that is not a military power either... and a nation that is very active in humanitarian efforts globally...

I have not heard of japan saying they are going to reduce their foreign aid for reasons of fairness in any text thus far...

as it stands... a large percentage of our foreign aid goes to a single nation... over $3 billion in money goes to israel annually... plus other misc. niceties...

 

[pax]

pax wrote:


What "freedom of action to act" do we have that they don't? What do you mean?

This one shouldnt be too hard for anyone who knows the countries in the area and how long the regimes that run them have been in power... I think we are a little spoiled with our 200 year old democracies in the west... tahir said it quite well, the wahabi's long term influence in the region is one of the reasons we dont see real political involvement of the populace.

 

[pax]

The simple way to do this is to just say good bye and just not help out anyone else . That way we are no the big evil america. Lets see how they fair when we don't send thier countrys billions in aid.

What aid the muslim world gets is fraction of the scam 50-50 long term contracts the west has with saudi arabia. Is the sauds were smart they'd do like kuwait and simply sub contract what work from the outside is needed without signing away half the value of their oil.

 

[Natoma]

People should take care to not brand the entire religion of Islam because of Al-Qaeda and related terrorist networks. Hinduism has a very bloody history, not to mention Christianity and Judaism. Going by history alone, none of these peaceful religions deserve to be called such. I think these facts should be remembered before accusations are tossed about.

So how does this apply to Saudi Arabia ?

Saudi Arabia is supremely poor and undereducated nelg. There are very few middle class and upper class citizens in that nation.

The terrorists on septemeber 11th weren't poor. Middle class saudis brainwashed by Wahhabism funded by Saudi oil money to prevent the overthrow of the royal family. Bin Laden's family are the Walton's of the middle east. Certainly not underprivileged.

However most of the terrorists in the Al-Qaeda network are indeed the poor. The higher ups who plan the bombings and other terrorist acts are most certainly those with power/money. But the vast majority of the network are the "unwashed poor" who are brought into the sect with promises of wealth for their families if they perform these martyr acts.