Opera 9

Yep, lots of great new features. You can now also edit advanced preferences by entering opera:config into the address bar. The per-site features are particularly welcome. Opera once again leads the way...
 
Downloading right now.

As many of you know my past experiences with Opera were not the greatest, but its include programs (especially the IRC) are real winners just stand alone. So I figure its at least worth the download.
 
I guess Firefox does not render it correctly either, but does this honestly matter? NO.

I'll use the browser that gives me the most features, the most stablity and just plain out works while being secure. I could care less if it follows standards, as long as it shows the page in the correct way.

Just so you know: I've ran into FAR more pages that Opera rendered incorrectly than IE or Firefox does. Why? Because there are LOTS of websites that dont follow thos standards, therefore the standards are basically worthless untill you get a sudden change from MS about it, which is doubtful.
 
Skrying said:
I guess Firefox does not render it correctly either, but does this honestly matter? NO.
Click to expand...
That's a bit like saying it doesn't matter if your DX10 compliant card doesn't render a DX10 benchmark correctly. Of course it matters. Those tests represent the future of the web. Mozilla use those as a benchmark just as much as Opera do.

I could care less if it follows standards, as long as it shows the page in the correct way.
Click to expand...
How do you know if the page is being displayed correctly if there are no standards to govern how a mark-up language is rendered? You will never get "correctness" with standards to govern the behaviour. Without standards you get chaos and the current mess. Just because you can't grasp this doesn't mean it's not important.

Just so you know: I've ran into FAR more pages that Opera rendered incorrectly than IE or Firefox does.
Click to expand...
Rendered differently is not the same as rendered incorrectly.
 
Looking at the source code for that test.... I can only conclude that we are regressing if that is what is required for such a simple result in the future.
 
Diplo said:
That's a bit like saying it doesn't matter if your DX10 compliant card doesn't render a DX10 benchmark correctly. Of course it matters. Those tests represent the future of the web. Mozilla use those as a benchmark just as much as Opera do.

How do you know if the page is being displayed correctly if there are no standards to govern how a mark-up language is rendered? You will never get "correctness" with standards to govern the behaviour. Without standards you get chaos and the current mess. Just because you can't grasp this doesn't mean it's not important.


Rendered differently is not the same as rendered incorrectly.
Click to expand...

Standards do not matter unless they are followed. YOU grasp that point first. Your analogy to DirectX 10 compliant cards is wrong because that is a situation where they are followed, with many web pages out there the standards are not followed and its just that simple.

The fact is that Opera will often render a page wrong (where the point its unusable, that's how I know its wrong). It does not matter if the site follows standards or not, it just matters that its in the end rendered correctly or not.

I'm sorry if you can not grasp those points.
 
Skrying said:
Standards do not matter unless they are followed. YOU grasp that point first. Your analogy to DirectX 10 compliant cards is wrong because that is a situation where they are followed, with many web pages out there the standards are not followed and its just that simple.
Click to expand...

Actually, you both have a point. Diplo is right in that DX standards are not strictly followed by the IHVs (see ATi and vertex texturing and nVidia and PCF) and more often ISVs so problems will arise in the future. You also have a point in saying ignoring web page standards is much more frequent than DX standards. I think diplo has a point in saying this test is useful. And you are right when you say it doesn't matter ("right now" I would add).

Just to put things into perspective, the IE team has said a while ago that IE7 final will most likely not render Acid2 correctly while the firefox crew is aiming for full Acid2 compliancy in a near-future version.

The fact is that Opera will often render a page wrong (where the point its unusable, that's how I know its wrong). It does not matter if the site follows standards or not, it just matters that its in the end rendered correctly or not.
Click to expand...

Personally, it matters to me when it's not Opera's but the author's fault when the site is not correctly rendered, especially still when simply masking Opera agent id as IE or Firefox will make it work. I agree that it won't matter to joe-internet-guy that doesn't know what an agent id is.

I do think this is a symptom of growing pains. Firefox had to go through this too and only when it gained more market share did big sites stop authoring exclusively for IE. I think it's highly unfair to blame the browser regardless, otherwise we'd only have IE since people would never give alternative browsers the opportunity to develop.

Let's not forget when Microsoft specifically blocked Opera from rendering correctly (the server, upon detecting Opera, would actually send a different web page to render, one with deliberate errors) from MSN so the Opera guys made a special bork version of the browser that turned every word into "bork" whenever you visited MSN as a protest. http://www.opera.com/pressreleases/en/2003/02/14/ for nostalgia.
 
I think standards do matter, but only when they are followed which in the case of the Internet can sometimes be not very often. To me a test suching such, at this time, matters little because a great number of sites are not coded according to those standards.

While I do blame authors for not doing the correct things, I am not going to use a browser that does not work with a site I must use no matter if it is not the browsers fault. This is the point I'm trying to get across.

To me Opera has LOTS of great ablities and is a great program. Its had issues with me, but with each new release I'm willing to try it out because it includes great things and does it very well.
 
I don´t get what happens when you use fullscreen. Sometimes the adressfield appears?
Is there a possibility to let it (and the search field) pop up when I press F8 etc.?

Regards,
Vadi


ediu:
Is there a way to disable the download popup/tab. I´d like to have that in the background somehow.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Vadi said:
I don´t get what happens when you use fullscreen. Sometimes the adressfield appears?
Is there a possibility to let it (and the search field) pop up when I press F8 etc.?

Regards,
Vadi


ediu:
Is there a way to disable the download popup/tab. I´d like to have that in the background somehow.
Click to expand...
The transfer tab has a few icons on the top. Hit the view icon (looks like a pair of glasses) to drop down a menu. You'll find the setting there.
 
Well a good time as any to try Opera for once. Damn it renders fast!
 
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