OMG HARDOCP REVIEW OF UT2003 AND FILTERING

[CorwinB]

So it seems that the first technology Nvidia used from the 3dfx IP (apart from the patented "Missed Product Cycle" and "Delayed GPU") is not high quality FSAA, but rather the cheap mipmap dithering (AKA "poor's man trilinear") ?

When people used to bash 3dfx products for the lack of true trilinear when compared to the GF1 and GF2, I never thought we would see the same argument a few years later, except the other way around (I mean, if mipmap dithering is looking so good right now, why was it looking that bad 2 years ago).

 

[swanlee]

I got banned at hardocp in about two hours after registering, and did not cuss while there. Do I get a badge to?

 

[Ante P]

Can someone with a login and who's not banned just make a post in the videocard forums at H and ask them why they are so frikkin' afraid of AntiDetector.

DoomTrooper tried but apparently they were afraid of the pictures and removed them.

Hey btw, Anand still has his 1600x1200 4x AA 8x AF 300+ fps scores in his review of the 5900 Ultra.

Yeah, internet journalism at its best.

 

[WaltC]

So it seems that the first technology Nvidia used from the 3dfx IP (apart from the patented "Missed Product Cycle" and "Delayed GPU") is not high quality FSAA, but rather the cheap mipmap dithering (AKA "poor's man trilinear") ?

When people used to bash 3dfx products for the lack of true trilinear when compared to the GF1 and GF2, I never thought we would see the same argument a few years later, except the other way around (I mean, if mipmap dithering is looking so good right now, why was it looking that bad 2 years ago).

Heh... "Mipmap dithering"....Until you mentioned it, I had all but forgotten it.... Yep, this whole "debate" is doing little more than setting the industry back 3-4 years.

"The only reason that "NVIDIA was caught" was because ATI took the information to FutureMark and they delivered it to their supposed journalists on their Beta Program as well." ([K]yle B., PR specialist)

Corwin, please tell me this is a paraphrase and not an actual quote. He didn't actually state this for public consumption, did he? If he did, he sounds much more unhappy with the fact that nVidia got caught as opposed to what nVidia did to get caught. Unbelievable...

 

[Heathen]

Can someone with a login and who's not banned just make a post in the videocard forums at H and ask them why they are so frikkin' afraid of AntiDetector.

I'll register just to ask if you want.

 

[{Sniping}Waste]

Looks like Kyle is doing the same thing like the P4 3.04 TH review. He is lieing then and know. He is also removing any proof on his forms that proofs him wrong. He won't do anything that puts Nvidia in a bad spot light and the sad thing is that he is draging Brent down with him.

 

[digitalwanderer]

"The only reason that "NVIDIA was caught" was because ATI took the information to FutureMark and they delivered it to their supposed journalists on their Beta Program as well." ([K]yle B., PR specialist)

Corwin, please tell me this is a paraphrase and not an actual quote. He didn't actually state this for public consumption, did he? If he did, he sounds much more unhappy with the fact that nVidia got caught as opposed to what nVidia did to get caught. Unbelievable...

No, that sounds pretty much like the direct quote I remember him making at the time too....I'll see if I can hunt up the link.

It's truly getting to be a bit pathetic to read K & B in their forums right now, I have a feeling they're having even less fun writing it.

Can someone with a login and who's not banned just make a post in the videocard forums at H and ask them why they are so frikkin' afraid of AntiDetector.

I'll register just to ask if you want.

No you can't, registration has been disabled since shortly before the article came online....methinks they new there might be a tiny bit of dissent over it.

EDITED BITS: Doh! I had two posts I was going to edit together but spaced it and hit the "post" button before doing so. Added the other comment.

 

[Myrmecophagavir]

"The only reason that "NVIDIA was caught" was because ATI took the information to FutureMark and they delivered it to their supposed journalists on their Beta Program as well." ([K]yle B., PR specialist)

Corwin, please tell me this is a paraphrase and not an actual quote. He didn't actually state this for public consumption, did he? If he did, he sounds much more unhappy with the fact that nVidia got caught as opposed to what nVidia did to get caught. Unbelievable...

I asked him the same question a while back

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6241

I suppose it doesn't really count as being intended for public release.

 

[digitalwanderer]

"The only reason that "NVIDIA was caught" was because ATI took the information to FutureMark and they delivered it to their supposed journalists on their Beta Program as well." ([K]yle B., PR specialist)

Corwin, please tell me this is a paraphrase and not an actual quote. He didn't actually state this for public consumption, did he? If he did, he sounds much more unhappy with the fact that nVidia got caught as opposed to what nVidia did to get caught. Unbelievable...

I asked him the same question a while back

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6241

I suppose it doesn't really count as being intended for public release.

Thanks for finding that, I wasn't even looking on the right forum.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Would it be a fair analogy to say that the way [T] compared AF on the 5900/9800 was about the equivalent of running 4xquincuxAA vs 4xAA? (if that makes any sense)

 

[CorwinB]

Heh... "Mipmap dithering"....Until you mentioned it, I had all but forgotten it.... Yep, this whole "debate" is doing little more than setting the industry back 3-4 years.

Wait until NV40 introduces a brand new and incredibly good-looking 22-bits post-filter... And [K]yle will explain how this incredible high-tech feature (impossible to disable in popular benchmarks even if you specify high-quality) looks just like 32-bits to him, and has incredible performance...

Corwin, please tell me this is a paraphrase and not an actual quote. He didn't actually state this for public consumption, did he? If he did, he sounds much more unhappy with the fact that nVidia got caught as opposed to what nVidia did to get caught. Unbelievable...

No no, that's an actual quote. I wouldn't dare putting words in his mouth.

 

[Yonex]

Hey there

Thats ok, the proof is there for people to see. It was only a matter of time.. people need to wise up now and realize how much covering up is going on.

They banned Dave for exposing the truth, then banned myself for the same..the actions of a dictator.

Don't get ahead of yourself. You were 3rd. They banned me 2nd. No cutting in line.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Re: Hey there

Thats ok, the proof is there for people to see. It was only a matter of time.. people need to wise up now and realize how much covering up is going on.

They banned Dave for exposing the truth, then banned myself for the same..the actions of a dictator.

Don't get ahead of yourself. You were 3rd. They banned me 2nd. No cutting in line.

Pagh, you're all "Johnny-come-lately" on the [H] banning train.

I've been banned TWICE from there now.

 

[reever]

Seem Kyle doesnt think too higly of this site either

" will not sit here and watch people slander HardOCP with our own bandwidth. There are places they can go and be welcomed to do that. Rage3D will allow you to do it all day long and B3D has a pretty good track history there as well. The mods will let you say pretty much anything and launch all sorts of vicious attacks that are personal and make all sorts of outlandish statements. "

How the hell anybody can say anything bad about B3d is beyond me, the people on this site know more about what they are talking about than Kyle or Brent have ever known in their lifetime

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Seem Kyle doesnt think too higly of this site either

" will not sit here and watch people slander HardOCP with our own bandwidth. There are places they can go and be welcomed to do that. Rage3D will allow you to do it all day long and B3D has a pretty good track history there as well. The mods will let you say pretty much anything and launch all sorts of vicious attacks that are personal and make all sorts of outlandish statements. "

Kyle has got his terms wrong again - it's "libel" if it's printed or published falsehoods, and "slander" if it's spoken. Besides, it's only "slander" if it's a malicous falsehood, i.e. untrue.

 

[Dean]

He sure likes to ban over there . I never have had an urge to signup on his forums and never will.

 

[vogel]

Can someone with a login and who's not banned just make a post in the videocard forums at H and ask them why they are so frikkin' afraid of AntiDetector.

Maybe because AntiDetector is useless? It just shows that you can make the driver perform worse by changing a couple of bytes. Big surprise there - might as well have inserted a sleep(1) while messing with it ;-)

-- Daniel, Epic Games Inc.

 

[FUDie]

Can someone with a login and who's not banned just make a post in the videocard forums at H and ask them why they are so frikkin' afraid of AntiDetector.

Maybe because AntiDetector is useless? It just shows that you can make the driver perform worse by changing a couple of bytes. Big surprise there - might as well have inserted a sleep(1) while messing with it ;-)

Is that what you think is going on here or is that what NVIDIA is telling you? Have you examined Unwinder's code? Do you understand what he is doing?

Judging by your comments, I'd say "no" to the last question at least.

If you think Unwinder's program is useless, explain to us why image quality improves on UT2003 (your game) and other games when using Unwinder's program on the GeForce FXs. Inserting "sleep" wouldn't improve image quality.

-FUDie

 

[Doomtrooper]

Maybe because AntiDetector is useless? It just shows that you can make the driver perform worse by changing a couple of bytes. Big surprise there - might as well have inserted a sleep(1) while messing with it ;-)

-- Daniel, Epic Games Inc.

Can you explain why it is ueseless, when currently it is the only way to get trilinear filtering AF on a FX card ?? When the developer is part of the cover up it is a sad day for PC gamers.

 

[WaltC]

No, that sounds pretty much like the direct quote I remember him making at the time too....I'll see if I can hunt up the link.

It's truly getting to be a bit pathetic to read K & B in their forums right now, I have a feeling they're having even less fun writing it.

I asked him the same question a while back

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6241

I suppose it doesn't really count as being intended for public release.

No no, that's an actual quote. I wouldn't dare putting words in his mouth.

Thanks much, guys. I thought that was pretty shocking, and then I read this:

Seem Kyle doesnt think too higly of this site either

" will not sit here and watch people slander HardOCP with our own bandwidth. There are places they can go and be welcomed to do that. Rage3D will allow you to do it all day long and B3D has a pretty good track history there as well. The mods will let you say pretty much anything and launch all sorts of vicious attacks that are personal and make all sorts of outlandish statements. "

OK, so this is clear evidence Kyle doesn't believe in free speech and free-flowing ideas in a discussion--evidently these are attributes he believes should be practiced in forums other than his own, such as B3d or Rage3D. Unreal, it really is...

What's the "personal" part he's referring to, I wonder--the fact that people use the name "Kyle" that he plasters all over the front page of [H] every day? And this from the guy who wrote the "Two days after the Doom 3 preview..." character assassination attempt on ET which never attempted to prove any points beyond the realm of hearsay? Apparently, Kyle thinks he's the only one who can analyze and criticize--or at least that this is the way things "ought" to be...unless you do so on another site where such "outlandish things" are tolerated...

I saw on these forums alone at least a dozen invitations for Kyle to defend his point of view on some of these topics--he declined to do so at every instance as I recall. Now I see on his own site forums that he edits and deletes posts, locks threads, and bans individuals for the crime of asking questions and making points which do nothing more outlandish than disagree with his positions--and he worries about what other sites are doing? I think he should worry much less about being wrong and much more about being right.