Nvidia won't design GPU for Xbox 2?

Apart from finding a few quotes hilarious in that article, I wonder if Nvidia would be doing the smart thing by "dumping" MS, especially if we are to believe that the trend in todays PC-industry is a further decrease. If the PC gaming industry does go down, it's not only MS directx that is at stake, but a big marketshare of Nvidia aswell.
 
What does this mean:

" He seemed to suggest that Nvidia may not necessarily go with the Xbox 2 architecture, because of the enormous engineering challenges."

Huh? If Nvidia makes the gpu for the next Xbox, then won't the next Xbox be using the architechture designed by Nvidia? Qroach?

Vince, you should read Jensun's put down of PS3.
 
bbot said:
I'm not so sure he was putting PS3 down, now that I hace read another account. He might have been praising the PS3. What's more surprising is Jensun's admission that the PS3 might be hard to outdo (uh-oh, qroach. Guess my next console might just be a PS3).



http://messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=15969433&tid=atyt&sid=15969433&mid=55287
Click to expand...



wow if thats true then i'm impressed..... thats like *the best man* saying he won't be able to outdo the competition......
 
london-boy said:
wow if thats true then i'm impressed..... thats like *the best man* saying he won't be able to outdo the competition......
Click to expand...


Yes, I don't ever recall him stating such a thing in the past few years (circa '99) that I've been around. Yet, lets think this threw - in the past nVidia's rivals have been weak at both an internal and external level (eg. 3dfx, Ati, S3) and basically posed little threat to nVidia. Recently, Ati has become somewhat more invigorated and while they pose no true threat to nVidia's bottomline at this time (unlike what some other, biased, people in the other room will tell you) - but the potential in 2 or 3 cycles to cause damage is there. So, perhaps it's best for nVidia to carefully weigh the risk vs. rewards and the indirect influece it could have on it's core-buisness. Because, it's the PC buisness which is making them money - not 5M XBox.

But, being in the XBox is a 'force multiplier' type deal where developers are forced to work with nVidia hardware at a low-level and become aquanted with that architecture and programming to it. This obviously also applies to PC games which are ported and vice-versa. So, in the end - I dunno. Whatcha all think.
 
I think Jen-Hsun Huang has hinted at the possibility of Nvidia not being in the X-Box 2 for a while now. The main reason for Nvidia's probable absence stems from Microsoft being tightfisted with the hardware budget. Huang wants Microsoft to provide a much more lucrative contract and Microsoft isn't budging.

If Nintendo is going with ATI, I wonder what hardware companies are on Microsoft's short list? Intel, 3d labs, and Power VR maybe? The clock is certainly running fast now for MS to make some sort of decision on what technology to put into a X-Box 2.
 
Brimstone said:
The main reason for Nvidia's probable absence stems from Microsoft being tightfisted with the hardware budget. Huang wants Microsoft to provide a much more lucrative contract and Microsoft isn't budging.
Click to expand...

IIRC, Microsoft used GigaPixel as a proxie in a similar way on Xbox - ultimatly to force price reduction in the name of competition. Or so I think.
 
I'm listening to the call right now, and so far he had nothing but prasie for the xbox and is really happy with the business. Some sent in a question asking if they were happy with the Xbox deal, and he say, how can you not be happy with recieving billions of dollars from any deal?

Regarding Xbox 2.

- He said the relations ship has improved after settling arbritation.
- He said MS will announce the Xbox 2 deal when they are ready.
- That Nivida would be delighted to work with MS on Xbox and that the economics would have to make sense for both sides.
- He said that xbox 1 took about 300, engineers to build and it was a incredibly big task, and that xbox 2 is going to be even larger.
- This is where he started comparing the size of the task to PS3 and what Sony is doing with Cell.
- He said cell is going to be a miracle machine (just to start) and it's going to be a large undertaking to match.


So he didn't really say that Nvidia wouldn't go with xbox 2 due to the engineering challenges. He simply suggested that the economics would need to make sense for them to be interested.
 
I do think the general perception of both Microsoft and Nvidia will be hurt if they go their seperate ways. Convincing people that the technology is bleeding edge without the nVidia logo to back it up will be hard to do. Intial perception is worth a lot. Sony worked the hype well around the PS 2, and they are already doing a good job with the PS 3 (the declared 1000x performance over PS 2).

Nvidia has stumbled a bit with the launch of the NV 30. If they don't get the X-Box contract, it would seem they will have no equivilent revenue replacement since ATI looks to be working with Nintendo. Things don't look too bright on the PC side. I'm sure they'll be growth with the NForce 2 chipset, but when it comes to GPU's, nV faces a lot of fierce competition.
 
He said before that it wouldnt be much use trying to compete without spending the same kind of money on it ... if he is assuming m$ wont spend that kind of money on development he would think it miraculous to equal it.
 
MS could make there chooice based on what NVidia does for the NV35 and what ATI and NVidia have planeed for future hardware improvments, MS are probably just looking at their options at the moment.
 
He is trying to accomplish one thing, by saying these things.

Goal: He is trying to put the pressure on Microsoft to provide adequate budget and resources to build the Xbox 2 GPU.

1. The first thing he tries to make Microsoft nervous by letting them know time is running out on getting the process moving for a 2005 release. He wants to let them know that the last relationship was rocky, and wants this one to be smooth for both companies.

2. He HYPES the hell outta the PS3 (some genuine, some hype) to create fear in Microsoft so that they will be more likely to put a significant amount of resources (read money) into the next GPU. By saying that the PS3 is a "Miracle Machine", he's saying he needs "Miracle Money" to compete with it. So Microsoft will need to invest up to 1.5Billion dollars into Nvidia and research to produce a competitor.

That is the goal of Jensun's talk. Do not take lightly the intelligence of a good and smart CEO. Although he did say some things trying to undermine the folks doing the PS3 (about using brute force and no shaders).

Speng.
 
Although he did say some things trying to undermine the folks doing the PS3 (about using brute force and no shaders).
Click to expand...
That's one of the things... How does he even know it's goint to be a 'miracle machine' or that it's not going to use shaders? I think it's quite unlikely anyone would be able to know such specifics at this point, when noone really knows anything, even in general, about the hardware.
 
marconelly! said:
Although he did say some things trying to undermine the folks doing the PS3 (about using brute force and no shaders).
Click to expand...
That's one of the things... How does he even know it's goint to be a 'miracle machine' or that it's not going to use shaders? I think it's quite unlikely anyone would be able to know such specifics at this point, when noone really knows anything, even in general, about the hardware.
Click to expand...


what do u mean with "not knowing whether it will use shaders"........... i mean i guess its pretty obvious that it will, UNLESS it goes all totally weird and with a new rendering system altogether but thats soooo unlikely... i mean we are still going to use polygons in 2005 and u'll have to cover them with something i guess... UNLESS u have only flat shaded polygons but billions and billions of them to make HYPER-dense meshes... but thats VERY unlikely in 2005.... u never know tho...
 
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