Nvidia Turing Product Reviews and Previews: (Super, TI, 2080, 2070, 2060, 1660, etc)

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by Ike Turner, Aug 21, 2018.

  1. Ike Turner

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    Only the shadows. Oh and DLSS doesn't universally work on all games but will require driver support for each title (each game will have its on ML model trained by Nvidia which will then be included in the driver).
     
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  2. pharma

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  3. DavidGraham

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    NVIDIA is also bringing RTX to Vulkan, being implemented in one game "Enlisted" already.

    "Showing our upcoming game Enlisted, 4K at over 90fps with our real-time global illumination solution on a new GeForce RTX looks amazing. We're super impressed with the Nvidia Vulkan raytracing preformance. We had development hardware for only three days"

     
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  4. McHuj

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  5. pharma

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    If true, nice departure from same day release/embargo lifted scenarios!
     
  6. silent_guy

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    The network has probably only a few thousand/ten thousand/whatever parameters.

    That’s not nearly enough for it to matter whether it’s a predictable movie or a game.

    They likely trained it on lots of data from different games and have a universal set of parameters. That’s how anybody would reasonably do, just like what everybody does for DNN picture upscalers and denoisers.

    https://engineering.flipboard.com/2015/05/scaling-convnets

    What you’re describing is an overtrained network.
     
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  7. Ike Turner

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    They are actually going to train the network on a game to game basis with each game having their own model which will then be included in the drivers. So it looks like they are not only going to have a universal data set but also one for each game. That's how it was also described during the Quadro RTX launch keynote at Siggraph (Porsche demo was rendered at super high res on the cluster to train the model which was then used to denoise and AA the real-time version.)
     
    #47 Ike Turner, Aug 23, 2018
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  8. pharma

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    Sounds like something that game developers might eventually do once the process is better known.
    http://www.legitreviews.com/nvidia-deep-learning-super-sampling-dlss-shown-to-press_207461
     
    #48 pharma, Aug 23, 2018
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  9. trinibwoy

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    If DLSS really is all about upsampling a low resolution image I can see it becoming a baseline requirement for consoles next generation. It has to be a lot cheaper than shipping hardware that can handle native 4K.

    To be honest I don’t know how I feel about it after all these years of “real” pixels. Need to learn more about the science behind it.
     
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  10. Jupiter

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    Of course this is a ideal scenario. Nevertheless, the visual style of the game is trained and mostly this does not change significantly.

    Since the training is based on real ground truth I have read that the method also has the potential to correctly suppress artifacts that are in a rasterized image but still worng and therefore the image would be closer to what higher resolution or supersampling produces.
     
    #50 Jupiter, Aug 23, 2018
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  11. silent_guy

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    Here’s how things could work:
    You typically train with a large set of disparate images from different sources. These should be sufficient to get good quality. If you have very specific high quality needs, you could do incremental training steps for a specific scenario.

    It’s possible that Nvidia does this for their professional rendering, but I doubt that it is even the case for the Porsche example. My reading of the Siggraph presentation was that he just gave an example about how training works in general, not that they retrain the network for each particular case. It seems like it would be prohibitively time consuming to do so.

    Edit: the paragraph above has already been invalidated by a later comment.

    But, hey, if they do this even for games, why not? Even there my original point stands: the network would not be able to create a perfect image because the amounts of parameters is way too low. You’d just have an additional boost in quality.
     
    #51 silent_guy, Aug 23, 2018
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  12. silent_guy

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    It’s not exactly the same if they use stochastic sampling for the ray tracing part. With regular upsampling, you know that the known pixels are in a regular grid.
    Whether this makes it easier or harder to achieve good quality? No idea.

    Think of the difficulty of benchmarking this. Just like Rage, which modulated render quality to keep constant frame rates. So much opportunities for online controversies!
     
  13. mpg1

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  14. pharma

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    Toms Hardware take on the marketing slides ....

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]


    https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-rtx-2080-gaming-benchmarks-rasterized,37679.html
     
    #54 pharma, Aug 23, 2018
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  15. mpg1

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    My guess is each 2000 card will have a ~25% gain over the 1000 equivalent.
     
  16. Silent_Buddha

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    Well that would likely make it fairly useless to me as I mostly play indie games or high-A games nowadays. It's fairly unlikely for NV to go through the trouble to do this for the 100's or 1000's of indie and high-A games out there.

    Regards,
    SB
     
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  17. pharma

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    Stay tuned!
     
  18. ToTTenTranz

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    Are you a nvidia rep with privileged information?
     
  19. hughJ

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    I presume that VRAM utilization is going to be much higher for most game engines given that the entirety of the scene is going to have to be transformed and sorted in a BVH that's resident in VRAM? You couldn't do any sort of early frustum culling on the CPU, correct?
     
  20. pharma

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    With all the stock options? ... yea I wish!:lol2:

    Actually I'm dying for more info, but something TomsHardware said about DLSS which made me think the process could possibly incorporate a "generic" algorithm in the future for those old games no longer supported. While not perfect it may provide a better quality than the original game.
    https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/2040706/
     
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