Northwood 3.06GHz upgrade path

W

Windfire

Regular
Okay, I'm stuck on AGP and am sick of the fact that AGP has been abandoned (thanks, but don't need any sarcastic "AGP is dead" quotes).

What I would like to do is make this upgrade as painless as possible. I've got at 3.06GHz CPU and 1GB of 533MHz RAM. I believe the 3.06 is socket 478. When I go to NewEgg the majority of 478 based motherboards are AGP. The few that sport PCI-E 16 don't mention Pentium 4.

Is there a motherboard I can get that I can move my CPU/RAM over to and get a PCI-E 16 slot?



Thanks,
Steve
 
AFAIK, no.

You should just wait a bit and then spring for a new Core 2 Duo system with DDR2 memory. Even the slowest Core 2 Duo will utterly destroy any 533FSB P4.
 
Nope, northwood is dead on intel chipsets and has been for quite awhile. Same with DDR1. Even if you managed to find a 478 compatable motherboard with PCI Express (there are some oddities floating around) i dont think you'd be gaurentied it would work on a northwood cpu, and i'm 99% sure it MUST use DDR2 which makes the entire process more trouble then its worth. Breaking your back to save very little money.

Your best options are to ebay what you have, which believe it or not still hold a little value with some people, or keep what you have as a second computer, and simply buy a cheap route to PCI Express, theres plenty around. Another option is if you dont have the cash for Core 2 Duo then a 939 AMD route would be the best way since you could at least salvage the ram, but obviously not the processor. I think you can pickup a very decent 939 and AMD processor combo for literally as little as $150-$200 which is problably damn near the cost of any freak PCI Express/478 Pin mobo you can find, and you still have to get new ram in that case where as the AMD route you can at least save that.

Either way you have to axe one or the other or both.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
DDR1 is not dead on Core 2 Duo. In fact, DDR1 is plenty enough for the C2D and A64 for that matter also. In fact, I'm running the very combo right now.

Look up the Asrock 775Dual-VSTA motherboard. It is a 775LGA motherboard, so that means you will need a new CPU, but you can take over your DDR1 memory to the motherboard and the AGP card, and later on upgrade to the PCIe and if you want to the DDR2.

The 775Dual-VSTA supports AGP, PCIe, DDR1, and DDR2.
 
Thanks everyone. It is as I feared.

Yes, the 3.06 PC will do well for my kids. The 6800GT will help too.

I've been building PCs since the late 80's I think this is the first real irritating upgrade issue I've run into. AGP has been dropped like it was a huge weakness when in reality even the best deltas in performance between 8x AGP and PCI-E 16 I've seen is perhaps 10%. Heck, the upgrades from AGP 1x ... 2x ... 4x and 8x were the same. As long as video cards had large memories the speed just wasn't a huge factor.

Oh well.

FYI, this is the hardware I'm looking at buying for a new PC (if I were to buy today--which I'm not going to do)...

CPU Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 $315
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115003

Motherboard Intel 975X ATX Intel Motherboard $259
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813121016

RAM Corsair XMS2 2GB $281
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145034

Case LIAN LI PC-65B $110 (or Antec P180 Mid-Tower)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811112040

Video Card SAPPHIRE x1950XTX 512MB $420
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102045

Hard Drives Seagate 320GB SATA2 Barracuda 7200.10 $190 (for 2x using RAID 0)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148140


Hardware I would move from my existing stash:
Antec TruePower 480
Audigy 2 ZS
2x DVD 16x Burners
Dell 2405
Natural 4000
Logitech MX700
 
Well, at least it'll be a major upgrade. Though you might want to put off on selecting a video card till we see what the Dx10 cards bring, the Nvidia Dx10 card being here in about three weeks.

I'd also STRONGLY suggest you pick up a better PSU. Check out www.jonnyguru.com for about the best PSU reviews on the web. Your Antec probably doesnt have the proper connectors (such as a 24-ping and 6-pin) for your new components.
 
Skrying said:
I'd also STRONGLY suggest you pick up a better PSU. Check out www.jonnyguru.com for about the best PSU reviews on the web. Your Antec probably doesnt have the proper connectors (such as a 24-ping and 6-pin) for your new components.
Click to expand...

Define "Better".

480 watts is certainly enough for a new PC short of needing it for Crossfire / SLI.

Are you thinking the power supply wires won't work in 975x based motherboards?


Thanks,
Steve
 
Windfire said:
Define "Better".

480 watts is certainly enough for a new PC short of needing it for Crossfire / SLI.

Are you thinking the power supply wires won't work in 975x based motherboards?


Thanks,
Steve
Click to expand...

If your TP is the orginal version then it only has a 20-pin motherboard connector, yours will need a 24-pin. Secondly, your video card will not have a molex connector, instead a 6-pin PCIe connector. Neither of which your PSU has. Secondly, the stress on the rails can be a bit much for the power supply. While 480watts might be enough for the system, the rails might not be up to snuff, 22A on the +12v rail isnt that much when you start talking about a X1950XTX and a Core 2 Duo system.
 
Skrying said:
If your TP is the orginal version then it only has a 20-pin motherboard connector, yours will need a 24-pin. Secondly, your video card will not have a molex connector, instead a 6-pin PCIe connector. Neither of which your PSU has. Secondly, the stress on the rails can be a bit much for the power supply. While 480watts might be enough for the system, the rails might not be up to snuff, 22A on the +12v rail isnt that much when you start talking about a X1950XTX and a Core 2 Duo system.
Click to expand...

Bummer.

Some times it just doesn't pay to buy up. More than ever, it seems like hardware is being designed with obsolescence as a goal.

Okay, I'll be buying a new power supply too. :( (at some point).

I'm thinking maybe I just spend $210 on a 7800GS AGP, which is 75-100% faster on the newer games then my 6800GT and live with it for another year.
 
Windfire said:
Some times it just doesn't pay to buy up. More than ever, it seems like hardware is being designed with obsolescence as a goal.
Click to expand...

Yup.
Sucks. They days of upgrading one component every 6-12 months seem to be gone.
 
Windfire said:
I'm thinking maybe I just spend $210 on a 7800GS AGP, which is 75-100% faster on the newer games then my 6800GT and live with it for another year.
Click to expand...

That might not be such a bad idea. With things such as DirectX 10 and such not even out, but very near, a upgrade like that can buy you time but keep you semi current.
 
I have two P4 3.0C S478/800FSB/AGP systems. One is an HTPC. If I was to consider upgrading the AGP graphics, I'd probably wait to see if an X1950 Pro AGP is produced or get a 7800GS AGP. In my case, I'm not going to bother. I'll either get a Mac Pro or build a Kentsfield/Clovertown "DX10" system early next year.
 
Skrying said:
That might not be such a bad idea. With things such as DirectX 10 and such not even out, but very near, a upgrade like that can buy you time but keep you semi current.
Click to expand...

I'm looking at this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814143046

$205 (after $30 rebate)
BFG Geforce 7800GS

It looks great with the exception of one review (which is suspect).

The one bad review I saw states:
<<<This card does not support the 1680x1050 widescreen mode. It has a max digital DVI resolution of 1600x1200.>>>

Is this guy just confused? I'm wondering if he's just confused becaused he didn't try to add 1680x1050 and 1600x1200 is the max it showed for his monitor?

Why would DVI be maxed at only 1600x1200?

I want to run my Dell 2405 at 1920x1200 via DVI (like I do my XFX 6800GT now).
 
I'd grab the cheapest one you can get. BFG is certainly NOT worth any premium they charge (which they often do). I've had a nightmare story with them, but I'll leave that for another time.

Also, 1680x1050 has less pixels than 1600x1200. You'll run into no problems with this, even if it doesnt work correctly right away there should be no issues at all forcing the resolution in the drivers. Newegg reviews are really useless and filled with users who have no clue or some how dont understand that you can get a bad card and this is the reason we have RMA's.......
 
Here's the review(s) for you then -- Part 3 - Graphics Performance, Part 1 - DDR/DDR2, Part 2 - More Memory Performance

Our results confirm that there is not a throughput performance penalty for using AGP over PCI Express on the ASRock 775Dual-VSTA. In fact, just the opposite is true in this case as our AGP graphics cards consistently scored better than their PCI-E counterparts. This is attributable to the PCI Express Graphics slot being limited to X4 operation at the upper resolutions and the slight overhead penalty incurred due to the VIA chipset design. However, the performance of the PCI Express slot is not that bad with the worst penalty being around 5% with our video cards. (Pairing the motherboard with a top end GPU results in performance that can be up to 10% slower in certain applications than competing motherboards.) If you have either an AGP or midrange PCI Express card then this board will handle both in a more than acceptable manner with today's applications.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
BRiT said:
Here's the review(s) for you then -- Part 3 - Graphics Performance, Part 1 - DDR/DDR2, Part 2 - More Memory Performance
Click to expand...

I also found this quote here:
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:...l-880Pro+performance&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

Quote:
The P4Dual-880Pro may not be an overclockers' wet dream, but its PCI-E slot still has the potential to save it. Unfortunately, we soon discovered a caveat here too, as the single PCI-E slot only supports four lanes, rather than the usual 16, which means it provides a quarter of the bandwidth of modern chipsets, such as Intel 975X.
 
The 4x lane limit results in only 10% less performance on the highest end of cards. 10% or a lot of money? I personally went with the 10%.
 
Skrying said:
The 4x lane limit results in only 10% less performance on the highest end of cards. 10% or a lot of money? I personally went with the 10%.
Click to expand...

Skrying,

So you went with this board? What video card did you get? I infer that you've had no regrets?

For me, the upgrade would require a new case and likely a PSU. My gut feel is that I'll wait another 3-4 months and then make a big jump.


Thanks,
Steve
 
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