Nintendo Slams Copycat Sony
- Thread starter Ben-Nice
- Start date
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
Legend
I'm pretty sure I saw Sony demoing motion/position sensing games and controllers at a London ECTS show about six years ago. If you want to look at prior art, long before that there were arcade games using motion sensing (such as the Virtuality games).
Nintendo just are upset because it's what they consider a unique selling point as they try to sidestep competing on Sony's "900lb gorilla" terms.
Nintendo just are upset because it's what they consider a unique selling point as they try to sidestep competing on Sony's "900lb gorilla" terms.
Considering Nintendo were responsible for Sony's entering the console space, it's their little 'Frankenstein's Monster' they're grumbling about. If it runs amuck, pulls your arms out of your sockets and beats you to death with the wet ends, it's your own fault... 
Yep. That's what Peter T was saying. Though I guess the CD innovation was Nintendo's in that they commisioned it, and Sony 'stole' it when Nintendo gave up and stuck with carts.
What happened to using the EyeToy in amazing new ways? They showed it at E3 2005 and then it just fell off the map (like so many things about the PS3).
I don't think anyone doubts Sony had the technology (MS does too as they have demod similar tech to the Wii-mote and have had commercial sensor controllers). But it seems special pleading to argue this is not copying. Last year we were told the Boomerang would only receive minor changes. Then Nintendo shows the Wii-mote at TGS 2005. Then 2 weeks before E3 a couple devs get gyro controllers and a lot of devs are out of the loop when it is announced at E3. In the least, the impression they give is that is was last minute and copying Nintendo's lead. Of course they had to put their own "innovation" spin on it at E3
There is a lot of copying that goes on in the industry. It kind of falls under the "so what?" category. So I don't know why people are being defensive about it. Sony copied Nintendo. So what?
That is aweful broad "optical media". Sega (Sega CD, Saturn), 3DO, and a number of other companies had optical media before Sony. And I am not sure any of them are using the same disks Nintendo is.
Anyhow, that sounds like grasping at straws. There is a difference between evolving hardware needs (e.g. independant graphic processors, moving sound onto the CPU, etc) and copying a marketing angle / design interface implimentation.
I am certain Nintendo has copied others before (or gone with the flow of the industry), but even their optical media route was chastized for NOT following the trend. Now they get chastized for copying Anyhow, as someone who has followed Nintendo closely their reasons for not moving to CDs had as much to do with piracy as anything else. Carts gave them a lot of control on piracy and on developers/publishers which is well in tune with their draconian methods. CDs did not offer such (the Dreamcast was pirated to the extremes) at the time so they did not transition when the *entire industry* did.
Since this was an industry transition, not started by Sony, I am not sure you can claim they copied Sony. Like I said, I am sure Nintendo has followed Sony's path at times. But optical media is grasping at straws (at best!) and I don't think there is an example where Nintendo did something like we are seeing right now.
There is a lot of copying that goes on in the industry. It kind of falls under the "so what?" category. So I don't know why people are being defensive about it. Sony copied Nintendo. So what?
PeterT said:
That is aweful broad "optical media". Sega (Sega CD, Saturn), 3DO, and a number of other companies had optical media before Sony. And I am not sure any of them are using the same disks Nintendo is.
Anyhow, that sounds like grasping at straws. There is a difference between evolving hardware needs (e.g. independant graphic processors, moving sound onto the CPU, etc) and copying a marketing angle / design interface implimentation.
I am certain Nintendo has copied others before (or gone with the flow of the industry), but even their optical media route was chastized for NOT following the trend. Now they get chastized for copying
Anyhow, as someone who has followed Nintendo closely their reasons for not moving to CDs had as much to do with piracy as anything else. Carts gave them a lot of control on piracy and on developers/publishers which is well in tune with their draconian methods. CDs did not offer such (the Dreamcast was pirated to the extremes) at the time so they did not transition when the *entire industry* did.Since this was an industry transition, not started by Sony, I am not sure you can claim they copied Sony. Like I said, I am sure Nintendo has followed Sony's path at times. But optical media is grasping at straws (at best!) and I don't think there is an example where Nintendo did something like we are seeing right now.
Nintendo comes out with the 'dpad' on the NES ----> Everyone copies
Nintendo comes out with shoulder buttons on the SNES ---> Everyone copies (including Sony with the PS1 controller)
Nintendo comes out with analog stick for N64 ----> Sony Comes out with Dual Analog stick PS1 controller
Nintendo releases 'rumble pack' for N64 ----> Sony builds rumble into each controller
Historically when it comes to control schemes Nintendo has always been the innovator and everyone else follows suit.
Got to give credit where credit is due
Nintendo comes out with shoulder buttons on the SNES ---> Everyone copies (including Sony with the PS1 controller)
Nintendo comes out with analog stick for N64 ----> Sony Comes out with Dual Analog stick PS1 controller
Nintendo releases 'rumble pack' for N64 ----> Sony builds rumble into each controller
Historically when it comes to control schemes Nintendo has always been the innovator and everyone else follows suit.
Got to give credit where credit is due
Shifty Geezer said:
Yep, thats what i'm thinking.
Nintendo should stop the whining though, its just poor form. This isnt even close to the rip-off that theyre portraying it to be. Price the console appropriately and theywont even have to worry about it anyway.
Phill Harrison is getting in a naughty habit of condemning strategies and then adopting them though isnt he Shifty?
Nintendo should do an Immersion and patent the hell outta all their ideas!
BTW, thanks to @Hardknock for making it clear concisely.
I'm guessing like a lot of you's I find all this name-calling a little tiresome. Mainly because of the accusations and rebuttals it can produce that rarely move the conversation forward (so far this thread is the exception).
It's the *industry* moving forward. Oddly, you rarely get this sort of talk when it comes to actual games. I'm thinking of Wolfenstein and it's many FPS "imitators", Populous and the plethora of god-like games (I include Rollercoaster Tycoon amongst that!).
BTW, thanks to @Hardknock for making it clear concisely.
I'm guessing like a lot of you's I find all this name-calling a little tiresome. Mainly because of the accusations and rebuttals it can produce that rarely move the conversation forward (so far this thread is the exception).
It's the *industry* moving forward. Oddly, you rarely get this sort of talk when it comes to actual games. I'm thinking of Wolfenstein and it's many FPS "imitators", Populous and the plethora of god-like games (I include Rollercoaster Tycoon amongst that!).
expletive said:Phill Harrison is getting in a naughty habit of condemning strategies and then adopting them though isnt he Shifty?
Well, someone needs to balance out the hyping of features (dual HDMI 1080p) that never make it into production
Not that this is bad PR, but I get the idea that part of last years PR one-upping was also seeing what would sink or float with consumers and developers. Do you want dual HDMI? Do you want 3 ethernet ports? Do you like the boomerang?
Anyhow, what is effective PR without sniping and poo-pooing on the competition?
Sony:
For now BluRay is an unknown quantity, down the road it might get as common as CDs/DVDs today, seeing as Sony made the only logical step. But at the same time it could be a failure and a unnecessary expense.
Nintendo:
Gyroscopic controllers were available years before... and failed (I have a Sidewinder Freestyle myself).
So both are using technologies known to mankind for years (optical discs, gyros), yet still a different implementation than anything thats available. Theres nothing really new invented here, the companies just made alot depend on the success on their respective implementations. In a few years we can consider if those decisions were "innovative" or just "stupid", for now - noone really knows.
I dont get however why a new controller should be automatically "innovative", yet a new optical format or a radically different CPU (Cell) not.
For now BluRay is an unknown quantity, down the road it might get as common as CDs/DVDs today, seeing as Sony made the only logical step. But at the same time it could be a failure and a unnecessary expense.
Nintendo:
Gyroscopic controllers were available years before... and failed (I have a Sidewinder Freestyle myself).
So both are using technologies known to mankind for years (optical discs, gyros), yet still a different implementation than anything thats available. Theres nothing really new invented here, the companies just made alot depend on the success on their respective implementations. In a few years we can consider if those decisions were "innovative" or just "stupid", for now - noone really knows.
I dont get however why a new controller should be automatically "innovative", yet a new optical format or a radically different CPU (Cell) not.
True. Sega Mega CD, Amiga CD32, CD-TV and CD-i, all ran games from CD.SugarCoat said: