Next-Generation NVMe SSD and I/O Technology [PC, PS5, XBSX|S]

[Johnny Awesome]

My expectation is that once engines are upgraded fully to next gen features that PS5 will maintain a load speed advantage in multiplatform titles and that Xbox 1st party will close that gap considerably by using SFS.

 

[davis.anthony]

My expectation is that once engines are upgraded fully to next gen features that PS5 will maintain a load speed advantage in multiplatform titles and that Xbox 1st party will close that gap considerably by using SFS.

We don't even know how SFS compares to PRT and PRT+ (Things PS5 can do and PS5 should have SF just not SFS as it's RDNA2) in regard to memory efficiency as even Microsoft have flat out avoided making such comparisons.

SFS is not the through put savior everything thinks/hope it will be.

And even so Kraken+Ooodle texture is 3.16:1 compression ratio, so PS5's raw speed of 5.5Gb/s is 17.3Gb/s with the new compression. Sony's original compressed figure did not use Oodle Texture.

That's 3.6x faster then XSX at peak, there's no way SFS is 3.6x faster and more efficient then the other methods like PRT/PRT+, that again PS5 will have access too.

 

[Remij]

2 seconds of loading vs 4 seconds is mostly meaningless... if that's what it comes down to.

No game is going to be constantly streaming in data at 17.3GB/s at any point during the generation. So it's a nice bullet point, but nothing that's going to make anything possible on one that isn't on the other.

 

[davis.anthony]

2 seconds of loading vs 4 seconds is mostly meaningless... if that's what it comes down to.

No game is going to be constantly streaming in data at 17.3GB/s at any point during the generation. So it's a nice bullet point, but nothing that's going to make anything possible on one that isn't on the other.

So being able to transfer 576mb per frame isn't going to allow PS5 to do anything a machine that can only do 160mb per frame can do?

OK......

 

[BRiT]

So being able to transfer 576mb per frame isn't going to allow PS5 to do anything a machine that can only do 160mb per frame can do?

OK......

Depends if the rumors of game memory resources are accurate. There's a lot that can be done with an extra 1.5 Gigs for buffers on the other system. [ PS5 Games having 12 Gigs memory, meanwhile SeriesX has 13.5 Gigs ]

 

[davis.anthony]

Depends if the rumors of game memory resources are accurate. There's a lot that can be done with an extra 1.5 Gigs for buffers on the other system. [ PS5 Games having 12 Gigs memory, meanwhile SeriesX has 13.5 Gigs ]

Just rumors though, they don't factor in XSX's need to use some of the system RAM as a DRAM cache for the SSD.

Did Sony official reveal PS4's OS size? Or was it leaked? Crazy how we don't have concrete information of PS5's.

 

[BRiT]

Did Sony official reveal PS4's OS size? Or was it leaked? Crazy how we don't have concrete information of PS5's.

Leaked PS4 and 4Pro SDKs. We also had some Naughty Dog presentations before that. I don't recall if the ND presentations were leaked or public. It's very odd we don't know definitively the resource availability on PS5.

 

[Remij]

So being able to transfer 576mb per frame isn't going to allow PS5 to do anything a machine that can only do 160mb per frame can do?

OK......

Yep, pretty much. What game is going to be doing that? Give me some examples of scenarios where you're transferring that much per frame constantly.

 

[davis.anthony]

Yep, pretty much.

I suppose if Insomniac made a squeal to Rift Apart that pushed PS5's I/O even harder it would work exactly the same on XSX too right?

 

[Remij]

I suppose if Insomniac made a squeal to Rift Apart that pushed PS5's I/O even harder it would work exactly the same on XSX too right?

Yes it would. The difference would be that those portal animations would be 5 seconds instead of 3.

 

[davis.anthony]

Leaked PS4 and 4Pro SDKs. We also had some Naughty Dog presentations before that. I don't recall if the ND presentations were leaked or public. It's very odd we don't know definitively the resource availability on PS5.

Found this on this DF article:

I was concerned that such a rich level of functionality may well be taking system resources away from the game developer, whether that's in terms of CPU time, GPU or memory. Sony isn't giving away any numbers on what the system allocation is, and neither is it confirming how much useable space is available on the SSD. However, the aim is to deliver the new features with the same kind of system allocation developers currently work with on current-gen platforms.

"Hardware resource is limited and defined, and it's shared between the game and our system side," confirms Hideaki Nishino. "We define how much of the resource can be spent by the system side, but it's a similar amount [to] what we are doing with PlayStation 4. That's a philosophical thing: we are trying to give as much power and resource as possible back to the game side, because the game is the core, and then we bring Control Centre and Activity Cards while minimising the [system] resources we spend."

So if they're aiming for PS4 levels it could potentially be 3Gb like PS4 Pro?

Maybe lower with opitmisation and using Oodle Texture where they can?

 

[davis.anthony]

Yes it would. The difference would be that those portal animations would be 5 seconds instead of 3.

So it wouldn't be the exact same would it? And those 3 seconds would be more like 10.8 seconds (3.6x slower remember)

3 portal jumps in a row (Which happens in Rift Apart) in 9 seconds on PS5, 3 portal jumps in 32.4 seconds on XSX (immersion breaking)

 

[Remij]

So it wouldn't be the exact same would it? And those 3 seconds would be more like 10.8 seconds (3.6x slower remember)

3 portal jumps in a row (Which happens in Rift Apart) in 9 seconds on PS5, 3 portal jumps in 32.4 seconds on XSX (immersion breaking)

*sigh*

 

[davis.anthony]

*sigh*

Indeed *sigh*....32 seconds is enough for developers to question even including that section in the game.

You can do a heck of a lot with 3.6x the throughput, even in multi platform games.

 

[see colon]

And even so Kraken+Ooodle texture is 3.16:1 compression ratio, so PS5's raw speed of 5.5Gb/s is 17.3Gb/s with the new compression. Sony's original compressed figure did not use Oodle Texture.

What's stopping them using Kraken and/or Ooodle texture (or Kraken + BCPack), and then using SFS? I mean, besides licensing fees. Also, if you were making a game like Rift Apart and your design goals require a 3 second portal transition, wouldn't you just alter those sections so that they load in 3 seconds?

 

[techuse]

Multiplatform games wont bother including anything that doesn’t work well enough on Xbox.

 

[BRiT]

Multiplatform games wont bother including anything that doesn’t work well enough on Xbox.

Or more specifically, on PCs.

 

[techuse]

Or more specifically, on PCs.

I think most AAA developers don’t care much about PC TBH judging by the quality of ports we usually get.

 

[BRiT]

I think most AAA developers don’t care much about PC TBH judging by the quality of ports we usually get.

I was thinking there's more multiplatform games on PC because of games releasing on "PS and PC" plus games releasing on "Xbox and PC" as well as "PS, Xbox, and PC" compared to the set of games releasing only on "PS and Xbox". Part of that reason being the console exclusive deals or development deals worked out.

 

[techuse]

I was thinking there's more multiplatform games on PC because of games releasing on "PS and PC" plus games releasing on "Xbox and PC" as well as "PS, Xbox, and PC" compared to the set of games releasing only on "PS and Xbox". Part of that reason being the console exclusive deals or development deals worked out.

I see, that is true. My post was more about what can be done within the confines of a smooth and enjoyable/polished experience. I honestly don’t think the PC factors in much at all here when the majority of devs are developing a game. Get it running as well as they can on consoles and hopefully fast enough PC hardware will brute force through.