Next-Generation NVMe SSD and I/O Technology [PC, PS5, XBSX|S]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Shortbread, Sep 18, 2020.

  1. DSoup

    DSoup meh
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    14,402
    Likes Received:
    10,447
    Location:
    London, UK
    PS4 owners wouldn't be able to hear it over the fan.
     
    Kugai Calo and JPT like this.
  2. Shortbread

    Shortbread Island Hopper
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages:
    4,969
    Likes Received:
    3,780
    Red Dead Redemption 2 load time from home screen to in-game.

    XBX 2 minutes and 40s Vs. XBSX 1 minute and 9s. Nice...

     
    Devious and jlippo like this.
  3. Allandor

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2013
    Messages:
    506
    Likes Received:
    377
    To more understand what Sony has done with their SSD, can it be that latencies are actually worse than on a standard nvme SSD?

    The "problem" I have with understanding the speed is, that the data must be split to 6 chips or better 12 channels. That means, if you want to get the peak speed, you must always fetch with the optimal data pattern, which means you must always read a good chunk of data ahead. So each channel must deliver data at around SATA3 max read speed (just imagine 12 SATA3 SSDs combined via Raid0 ^^) . So what is the min-data you can read from such a chip?
    Data will always be split between the chips for optimal performance. This also means that all 12 channels can read from the "same" address for one operation. So what would be the optimal size of data read from the SSD?

    MS on the other hand has just one chip. Do we know with how many channels it get accessed with? So one chip delivers half of the performance of 6 chips, which means the one chip must be clocked much, much higher to get the speed.
    So in the end to get the data, the latencies on the xboxes nvme are lower for the tiniest read operations. But on the other hand, with Sonys solution, you must wait a bit longer, but get much more data at once.

    This is where I see a difference in the design. SFS on the microsoft console is optimized to get as small read operations as possible, which on the other hand sonys solution is optimized to load large chunks faster, which would lead to other solutions. So if PRT is used, for the PS5 it would be better to work with larger chunks while the xbox would better work with smaller chunks to work most optimal with the SSD.
     
    RagnarokFF likes this.
  4. chris1515

    Legend Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Messages:
    5,971
    Likes Received:
    6,094
    Location:
    Barcelona Spain
  5. PSman1700

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2019
    Messages:
    4,270
    Likes Received:
    1,915
    He forgot to mention Zen3 with its rather large IPC increase and 12 core solutions, finally smashing intel. Later Intel most likely will answer with rocket lake.
    That and 7gb/s raw ssd speeds, with gpu compression doing some intresting stuff later on.

    Looking at AMD and NV, i never expected we would see 23+TF GPUs in this time and date (36 compute for NV). In special not the 128mb infinity cache. And ofc a 2x increase in RT perf. Intresting times indeed.
     
  6. iceberg187

    Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2006
    Messages:
    628
    Likes Received:
    79
    Location:
    Hobart, Indiana
  7. Shortbread

    Shortbread Island Hopper
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages:
    4,969
    Likes Received:
    3,780
    Fast, yet needs a good transitioning scene. No want's to see the game world being loaded in.:nope:
     
    function likes this.
  8. Devious

    Regular

    Joined:
    May 19, 2010
    Messages:
    412
    Likes Received:
    161
    Location:
    California
    Miss ya, @sebbbi. :embarrased:
     
    function and JPT like this.
  9. DSoup

    DSoup meh
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    14,402
    Likes Received:
    10,447
    Location:
    London, UK
    It's difficult to work out how far he's travelling here. If the clip starts at Geralt's current location then he's fast travelling about 40 yards and most of the assets will already be in RAM. Hopefully somebody will post a clip of Geralt fast travel from Skellige to the centre of Novigrad. I'm also keen to see the increase in resolution/framerate on Series X. :yes:
     
  10. Shortbread

    Shortbread Island Hopper
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages:
    4,969
    Likes Received:
    3,780
    Raonak, London Geezer, jlippo and 3 others like this.
  11. chris1515

    Legend Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Messages:
    5,971
    Likes Received:
    6,094
    Location:
    Barcelona Spain

    On some game like Spiderman press x skip the logo, I hope it is available here too.

    EDIT: And animation is skippable too.

    https://www.resetera.com/threads/de...omparison-ps5-vs-ps4-pro.318595/post-50233294

    I hope it is possible if they do a good job with the logos, the loading time from os to menu can go under 10 seconds.

    But the best feature is activity card loading directly to a save on the OS screen.
     
    #271 chris1515, Nov 3, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2020
    RagnarokFF and Shortbread like this.
  12. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
    Moderator Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    18,264
    Likes Received:
    20,003
    It may be, but in order to have consistent timing runs it wasn't used, so it's always comparing like for like and removing any human variability.
     
    DSoup and Shortbread like this.
  13. chris1515

    Legend Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Messages:
    5,971
    Likes Received:
    6,094
    Location:
    Barcelona Spain
    I don't know how human variability is something when press on let the X button press and skip every logo. It will be at 0.1 or 0.2 the same loading time. After this is not the best functionnality because using activity you can bypass cold boot for a save or save state.
     
  14. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
    Moderator Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    18,264
    Likes Received:
    20,003
    Absolutely, but this is showing apples to apples of absolute worst case load times. In reality it will be substantially quicker. Like you said, users can use Game Activities which shortcuts a lot of things.

    It would be really something if Sony backports Game Activities to the PS4, at least the game level loading aspects. I don't expect them to, but that would be extremely nice quality of life improvement for last-gen. It's certainly a feature I wish for Microsoft to steal and implement for Xbox eccosystem.
     
    DSoup, Johnny Awesome and Shortbread like this.
  15. chris1515

    Legend Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Messages:
    5,971
    Likes Received:
    6,094
    Location:
    Barcelona Spain
    AzBat, PSman1700, RagnarokFF and 5 others like this.
  16. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
    Moderator Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    18,264
    Likes Received:
    20,003
    Source Tweet with some interesting photos:

     
    AzBat, Shortbread, Jay and 1 other person like this.
  17. ChuckeRearmed

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2020
    Messages:
    198
    Likes Received:
    96
    I wonder if it means that we will be able to replace internal SSD when faster SSDs will arrive to the market
     
  18. DSoup

    DSoup meh
    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    14,402
    Likes Received:
    10,447
    Location:
    London, UK
    I don't see this happening. Unless supporting cards is minimal effort stuff (and it may be) I think some devs won't even support this on PS5 games, but for Sony to provide this functionality on PS4 games? Are we talking only PS4 games that run on PS5 or adding this functionality to PS4's OS as well? Then how many devs ae going to revisit games to patch this in? I just don't see it.. :nope:
     
  19. BRiT

    BRiT (>• •)>⌐■-■ (⌐■-■)
    Moderator Legend Alpha

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    18,264
    Likes Received:
    20,003
    I was thinking it would be a nice feature for PS4 OS, for those first-party and third-party cross-gen games coming out in 2021 or later. Nothing for existing games, I don't see how you could support it on games without them being patched. I don't see it happening either, but it sure would be a nice quality of life improvement.

    Still hoping for Microsoft to offer something similar for games not in the Quick Resume ring.
     
    DSoup likes this.
  20. Allandor

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2013
    Messages:
    506
    Likes Received:
    377
    It is a modified version. You don't get the speed of the SSD over just 2 Gen 3 lanes. They might have used the "of the shelf"-part but it can communicate with 2 PCIe Gen 4 lanes. I just expect the controller chip on the SSD is able to communicate with PCIe 4 x2 or the SSD was always designed that way that it can communicate with both standards. The end speed is more or less the same, but PCIe 4 just uses half the lanes.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...