Next Gen Panel Discussion

I didn´t listen to all of it (150MBs is still a big deal to my internet connection), but from what has been posted, I agree. Nintendo´s controller is not something anybody wants, as usual Nintendo fans will modify their tastes to fit with Nintendo´s "vision", however when seeing the market grow every year, with so much variety and content, I can´t help but think that what he proposes is just plain BS, people are not getting tired of games.

The truth is Nintendo can´t compete anymore, hence this lateral move, becoming a niche player with steady profits and a small userbase.

I´m glad Rein had the balls to speak his mind, and criticize if he feels companies are not doing anything right.
 
Scott_Arm said:
Don't get my wrong, graphics can add to a game. Half Life 2 was definitely helped by the graphics, but they're not the best I've ever seen and they could have been worse and I still would have had fun playing it. What made the game fun was the interactivity of the game. You could interact with the environment in a way that made the gameplay feel unique. I loved picking up barrels and using them as shields to charge snipers or machine guns. The first game won us over with storytelling and AI, not graphics.
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I think graphics and gameplay are equally important. Clearly it's the gameplay that makes a game great, but these are video games and your connection to the gameworld is via the graphics.

If gameplay alone was all it took we would all still be playing NES games, and when it comes to truly next-gen games, all games are judged by graphics first and foremost.

How many times have you heard someone complain "That doesn't look next-gen" or "It looks like a PC game"? Those complaints are lost sales, and graphics is the reason why.
 
BlueTsunami said:
Matt was rightfully miffed, Mark was a total jackass.
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Mark knows what the hell he's talking about. The biggest complaint about games like Perfect Dark Zero is the graphics. I haven't heard much fuss about anything yet. Gears of War looks bland gameplay wise (IMHO), but the press are ticks on Epics nuts because of the graphics. People buy next gen consoles for graphics over anything else. He's right. Denying that is just flat out naive.

Matt is a Ninty fanmonkey. Nintendo hasn't shown shit besides that wacky ass, gimmicky controller. He was right. The controller is a stupid gimmick. Revolution will be relegated to Nintendo's loyal little niche and will be Nintendo's last console.

Mark was spot on with the Blu-Ray deal and nailed the one area that made MS back away from the standard. Everytime I think Blu-Ray I can feel the iron hand of the MPAA on my crotch. The speculation about needing a TV with HDMI input to use it is disturbing as well as the fact that I won't be able to stream BD media to other devices. Ugh.

Mark is a diplomat regarding Xbox 360 vs. PS3. He's also a realist. Anyone expecting a visible difference between both consoles are in for a dissappointment. Graphics will be awesome on both machines. Only negative thing was the "batarang" hate. They aren't even using it on dev kits. There's a 99% chance that Sony will change the design. People hate it. Seriously, I'd rather have a dildo with buttons than that thing.
 
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Alpha_Spartan said:
Mark knows what the hell he's talking about. The biggest complaint about games like Perfect Dark Zero is the graphics. I haven't heard much fuss about anything yet. Gears of War looks bland gameplay wise (IMHO), but the press are ticks on Epics nuts because of the graphics. People buy next gen consoles for graphics over anything else. He's right. Denying that is just flat out naive.

Matt is a Ninty fanmonkey. Nintendo hasn't shown shit besides that wacky ass, gimmicky controller. He was right. The controller is a stupid gimmick. Revolution will be relegated to Nintendo's loyal little niche and will be Nintendo's last console.
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Your very passionate. Ok...to say the controler *was* gimmicky when the Revolution is to come out next year is totally breaking the time space continuum . Another point, games shouldn't be all about visuals, its that type of skin deep mentality thats start to make people like you very superficial (in the game sector). You get past the shock and aww of video game visuals eventualy...when you do...if the game WAS all visuals...you have an empty shell of a game.

Even if Matt is a "Ninty Fanmonkey" the way Mark was talking about Nintendo WAS inappropriate (although it made me laugh). He does have a point, no matter, but he should have worded everything differently. The way he explained Blu-Ray and HD-DVD is the way he should have voiced his opinion on Nintendo.

Finally, Mark recognized that Nintendo may have a compitent system on their plate. So hes making baseless comments on something he knows nothing about....heh
 
BlueTsunami said:
Another point, games shouldn't be all about visuals, its that type of skin deep mentality thats start to make people like you very superficial (in the game sector). You get past the shock and aww of video game visuals eventualy...when you do...if the game WAS all visuals...you have an empty shell of a game.
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Well, visuals, as someelse stated is how videogames ultimately communicate with the user. Gameplay really matters, but it´s not the one and only aspect of a videogame, there is so much you can do with visuals to attain an important level of atmosphere. You can go past 80´s inspired games where everything works towards the game and start to create a complete experience, something that sticks with you and can mark you as a person. That´s what videogames have been trying to achieve all this time since the 32 bit generation, and we´re getting closer and closer to that. Besides, good visuals are rarely attached to bad games, so they can be indicative of a quality product.

Even if Matt is a "Ninty Fanmonkey" the way Mark was talking about Nintendo WAS inappropriate (although it made me laugh). He does have a point, no matter, but he should have worded everything differently. The way he explained Blu-Ray and HD-DVD is the way he should have voiced his opinion on Nintendo.
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Why should he change his wording if that is how he really feels about the console? It´s a very valid point of view, only Nintendo fanmonkeys ultimately want revolution because they have to.
 
Almasy said:
Why should he change his wording if that is how he really feels about the console? It´s a very valid point of view, only Nintendo fanmonkeys ultimately want revolution because they have to.
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He came off as obnoxious. Sure, he can say it the way he wants (like I said, I laughed) but with most people, it will probably negate what he said because of the obnoxiousness.
 
Alpha_Spartan said:
Mark knows what the hell he's talking about. The biggest complaint about games like Perfect Dark Zero is the graphics. I haven't heard much fuss about anything yet. Gears of War looks bland gameplay wise (IMHO), but the press are ticks on Epics nuts because of the graphics. People buy next gen consoles for graphics over anything else. He's right. Denying that is just flat out naive.

Matt is a Ninty fanmonkey. Nintendo hasn't shown shit besides that wacky ass, gimmicky controller. He was right. The controller is a stupid gimmick. Revolution will be relegated to Nintendo's loyal little niche and will be Nintendo's last console.

Mark was spot on with the Blu-Ray deal and nailed the one area that made MS back away from the standard. Everytime I think Blu-Ray I can feel the iron hand of the MPAA on my crotch. The speculation about needing a TV with HDMI input to use it is disturbing as well as the fact that I won't be able to stream BD media to other devices. Ugh.

Mark is a diplomat regarding Xbox 360 vs. PS3. He's also a realist. Anyone expecting a visible difference between both consoles are in for a dissappointment. Graphics will be awesome on both machines. Only negative thing was the "batarang" hate. They aren't even using it on dev kits. There's a 99% chance that Sony will change the design. People hate it. Seriously, I'd rather have a dildo with buttons than that thing.
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Anyone remember the one Southpark episode where Mr. Garrison invents a new super efficient form of transportation, the downside being you had to take it up the ass and mouth to ride the thing. This is what the Revolution controller is to me. Sometimes when I play console games I just want to lay down on my couch and have a relaxing game, I don't see this being possible with this controller. Even if it does prove to be less of a hassle then it seems if I notice anything wrong with the accuracy and predictability of any controller then its a deal breaker.
 
BlueTsunami said:
He came off as obnoxious. Sure, he can say it the way he wants (like I said, I laughed) but with most people, it will probably negate what he said because of the obnoxiousness.
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It doesn´t really matter if he was obnoxious or not, what´s significant is the idea Of course, that way of saying things can lead you to trouble, but I believe that as long as the concept is ok, you act however you like and that won´t change the real content of what you´re saying.

Besides, it´s time someone important in the industry spoke out loud what many of us have been thinking, that Revolution´s controller is simply a bad idea and will only attract simple game types.
 
Almasy said:
It doesn´t really matter if he was obnoxious or not, what´s significant is the idea Of course, that way of saying things can lead you to trouble, but I believe that as long as the concept is ok, you act however you like and that won´t change the real content of what you´re saying.

Besides, it´s time someone important in the industry spoke out loud what many of us have been thinking, that Revolution´s controller is simply a bad idea and will only attract simple game types.
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I just want to point out that the attachment system nullifies everything he says. Nintendo has the ability to allow a peripheral to be a wavebird controller of some sort. Theres that type of open option that I believe will allow Nintendo to outreach to 3rd party developers that have issues with the controller itself.

Basically, making blanket comments like that (in an obnoxious manner) is a bad thing, especially when everything is so secretive.
 
BlueTsunami said:
I just want to point out that the attachment system nullifies everything he says. Nintendo has the ability to allow a peripheral to be a wavebird controller of some sort. Theres that type of open option that I believe will allow Nintendo to outreach to 3rd party developers that have issues with the controller itself.

Basically, making blanket comments like that (in an obnoxious manner) is a bad thing, especially when everything is so secretive.
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But will this attachment ship standard with every system and extra controller? If not there is a lot of hassle in playing games the way they should be played especially if your talking about multiplayer.
 
robofunk said:
But will this attachment ship standard with every system and extra controller? If not there is a lot of hassle in playing games the way they should be played especially if your talking about multiplayer.
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Yeah, thats true. But for Nintendo's own sake, they better do something to extend an olive branch to 3rd party companies. I guess since their still making a profit off hardware and games...its ok with them. So its probably all a non issue to Nintendo.
 
I definitely got the sense that Matt was playing defense the whole time. And while Rein has a much bigger mouth than I'd like (which I've stated before but few agreed), he's not without point. He said we'll probably get a bunch of games that are billed as revolutions but are gimmicks. He also said that Nintendo just doesn't make bad games (which is extending a fair amount of grace N's way, I might add). And so he's against the Rev?

Look past the blustery appearance and focus on the words. They're not so unbelievable. Matt could not, obviously, as he claimed Metroid Prime 3 would rock as if it was some slam against Rein. But Rein already praised Nintendo, so MP3 (no pun intended) rocking is merely agreeing with him.
 
Powderkeg said:
I think graphics and gameplay are equally important. Clearly it's the gameplay that makes a game great, but these are video games and your connection to the gameworld is via the graphics.

If gameplay alone was all it took we would all still be playing NES games, and when it comes to truly next-gen games, all games are judged by graphics first and foremost.

How many times have you heard someone complain "That doesn't look next-gen" or "It looks like a PC game"? Those complaints are lost sales, and graphics is the reason why.
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that sir is 100% correct!


ROBOFUNK said:
Garrison invents a new super efficient form of transportation, the downside being you had to take it up the ass and mouth to ride the thing
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one of my favourites! i laughed so hard the first time i saw it...
 
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That was a pretty good panel discussion. I wish the Ageia guy could have spoke more but hey what can you do. I pretty much feel like everyone here and will say that Mark was an ass, but he was right. I wish they could have asked them if they thought Killzone on the PS3 was doable.:devilish:
 
Aside from the effect Rein's acid talk had at the event, what I'm interested in is if Epic supplies UE3 for Revolution or not. If the spec of Nintendo's console doesn't match the requirement of UE3 (GF6800) then there's nothing for Mark Rein to worry about in ripping Nintendo.
 
Thanks.

I do disagree with M. Rein gfx arent the only reason why we get next gen consoles, it is if the only difference between consoles is specs like it happens with XB-XB360, in the end you will play games just like XB, even GoW (which seems a very nice game IMO) is using beefed up mechanics from XB games mixing and etc... but noting really new, after that we can only hope some work around the 2 shoulder buttoms and AI, in the end the ONLY new thing in XB360 are specs so one will buy for specs upgrade. BTW is DS still outselling PSP?

The only times here I/we saw massive innovation has been when a new standard controler had come and for me it was in N64 (the 3D gfx also helped a lot), the console is full of classics that depends from the innovation of putting a joystick in the controller, in fact GoW/UC would not be possible without that, so putting controller as a minor feature is sad IMO, at the begining it seems is just holding is interest, I wonder if someday their engine end on the Rev what will he say.

On the otther side it seems that he prove that small teams still are able to play a part in next gen which is a very good thing (hope that isnt only after spending 1M in UE3:LOL: ).

Anyway seems a nice panel.
 
one said:
Aside from the effect Rein's acid talk had at the event, what I'm interested in is if Epic supplies UE3 for Revolution or not. If the spec of Nintendo's console doesn't match the requirement of UE3 (GF6800) then there's nothing for Mark Rein to worry about in ripping Nintendo.
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Inst supposed to run on a 9800 (from b3d interviewn) at 640X480 (even if things like HDR suffer), or a 6600 (from somehere, I dont remember), if not, UE3 games will have hard time selling, I guess:?:
 
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