Misconceptions about Blu-ray

Tsmit42

Newcomer
I am posting this because there are a lot of misconceptions about blu-ray floating around the Internet. It did not bother until after I read the White Papers off of the official blu-ray site and found out for my self the technical aspects of blu-ray. It was really surprising that most of the information about this technology is utterly fallacious. If you are interested in this technology, you should really read the 5 .pdf files on the website. If you choose not to I will give you a summary about this technology.

The only blu-ray format that is complete is BD-RE. This is where people get the, “Blu-ray only allows for mpeg2” statement. The truth is that every service provider company uses an mpeg2 transport stream. To encode an mpeg2 transport stream into a different codec at HDTV resolutions is not an easy task for hardware of today. They would have to start making specialized hardware for such a task, and the resulting picture quality would be inferior because it would have been taken from the mpeg2 transport stream and not the original source. This is the reason why the BDF (Blu-ray Disc Founders) chose mpeg2 for the BD-RE format. Also the BD-RE format is not locked down to just mpeg2 for future versions of the format. For instance, Voom is supposedly going to start using a more efficient codec for transmitting their signal to allow for more channels. If the BDF sees this as a good enough reason to include that codec in the BD-RE format they can if they want, but just because one small company does it doesn’t mean they will jump on the bandwagon.

The BD-ROM format is not complete. The BDF is working close to the studios to complete the format as we speak. If the studios decide that they will only use mpeg2, then blu-ray will hard a hard time justifying including another codec. The early version of this format was to use mpeg2 only because it was the codec that gave the best picture quality at the time. Given that at full data rate of 36mbps on a 50GB disk is just over 3 hours, it is plenty enough for pretty much every movie no matter what codec, so picture quality is the only determining factor. Look at the chart at the end of part3 of the .pdf files. The chart shows that only acceptable picture quality for both mpeg2 and mpeg4 was mpeg2 at 24mbps. Similar test was done with vc-9 and mpeg2 was chosen. This is why mpeg2 was originally the codec for this format as well, but since vc-9 and mpeg4 have made major improvement in PQ the BDF has chosen to give it another chance to be included.

Cost of blu-ray is also becoming more and more of a non-issue. Since TDK developed a new hard-coating and dropped the caddies (I actually liked the idea of caddies) for the BD-ROM format, the BDF has determined that it should cost the same if not less than a dvd5 to produce at mass volumes. The expense will actually come from retooling the equipment, which HD-DVD will also have to do. While the retooling to make blu-ray disk will cost more than retooling for HD-DVD, studios will have to retool all of their mpeg2 equipment to make use of the new codec of HD-DVD. So it’s either spend money on one or the other.

Blu-ray also has advantages in other areas as well.

1. Since blu-ray was made from ground up and not based on existed DVD technology, multiple layers are easier to do. DVD9 of today are basically a double-sided DVD that can be read from one side. It is extremely hard and expensive to create a true double-layered DVD, and since 2 layers on one side is extremely hard you rarely find a double-sided, double-layered DVD. With blu-ray this is not the case. TDK has developed a true quad layered blu-ray that is 100gb, and it would have no trouble doing that on a double-sided disk to increase it’s capacity to 200gb. Since HD-DVD is based on old DVD technology, it suffers from more that two layers so it is hard to get past the 30GB limit. This

2. Blu-ray was made for a rewriteable format first and foremost, so it is easier to use this technology as you would a VCR or a floppy disk. This convenience is truly a plus for the format, and combined with a capacity of 50-200GB on a single disk, it really a killer format for PC use.

3. Fast cost dropped is also a great possibility since blu-ray is strongly rumored to be used in the ps3. With millions of blu-ray drives and billions of disks being produced just for ps3, blu-ray can have a mass-market appeal rather quickly if marketed correctly.

4. 13 of the biggest CE companies backing it, enough said.

Also, no company beside CTS has officially backed any format.
 
Well as long as it plays my old dvds and upgrades the output of older dvds to 1080 like my momitsu v880 does Id have no issues choosing this over hd dvd. But right now costs makes it prohibitive for quite a while to come.

I hope to see some kind of hd disks soon tho as hdtv broadcast signals mostly suck. Its made me somewhat regret the early adoption of hdtv. Dvd on my 47" panny do look great tho...
 
3. Fast cost dropped is also a great possibility since blu-ray is strongly rumored to be used in the ps3. With millions of blu-ray drives and billions of disks being produced just for ps3, blu-ray can have a mass-market appeal rather quickly if marketed correctly.

Been saying this for years.
 
If blueray is used in the ps3 the ps3 will cost sony alot of money. The media may be cheap. The hardware is not . I don't expect it to drop in price quickly.

With dvd drives they were already in pcs for cheap (launch of the ps2 you could get one for under 200$ most likely under 100$) They were on the market for homes at 300-500$ .

Right now the blue ray players for the pc are extremly expensive . They are not out in homes yet .

I don't see them coming out next year for homes either or being cheap for the pc.

Yet some how sony is going to put it in the ps 3 ?

Please .
I expect a 4x or 8x dvdrw drive in there .
 
jvd said:
If blueray is used in the ps3 the ps3 will cost sony alot of money. The media may be cheap. The hardware is not . I don't expect it to drop in price quickly.

With dvd drives they were already in pcs for cheap (launch of the ps2 you could get one for under 200$ most likely under 100$) They were on the market for homes at 300-500$ .

Right now the blue ray players for the pc are extremly expensive . They are not out in homes yet .

I don't see them coming out next year for homes either or being cheap for the pc.

Yet some how sony is going to put it in the ps 3 ?

Please .
I expect a 4x or 8x dvdrw drive in there .

There have been article after article about people at SONY saying this, I did not make this up from out the air. If they think they can put it in ps3 for a reasonable price, who are you to argue with them?
 
The problem with H.264 is the in-loop filtering, VC-9 is better for high bitrate coding ... hell MPEG-4 is better, unless they were using 4:4:4 sampling (which would surprise me). I dont see why they tested against h.264 over a year ago. Maybe when the fidelity range extensions have been added they should try that again, for now the main aim has been very low bitrate coding.
 
Tsmit42 said:
I am posting this because there are a lot of misconceptions about blu-ray floating around the Internet. It did not bother until after I read the White Papers off of the official blu-ray site and found out for my self the technical aspects of blu-ray. It was really surprising that most of the information about this technology is utterly fallacious. If you are interested in this technology, you should really read the 5 .pdf files on the website. If you choose not to I will give you a summary about this technology.

The only blu-ray format that is complete is BD-RE. This is where people get the, “Blu-ray only allows for mpeg2â€￾ statement. The truth is that every service provider company uses an mpeg2 transport stream. To encode an mpeg2 transport stream into a different codec at HDTV resolutions is not an easy task for hardware of today. They would have to start making specialized hardware for such a task, and the resulting picture quality would be inferior because it would have been taken from the mpeg2 transport stream and not the original source. This is the reason why the BDF (Blu-ray Disc Founders) chose mpeg2 for the BD-RE format. Also the BD-RE format is not locked down to just mpeg2 for future versions of the format. For instance, Voom is supposedly going to start using a more efficient codec for transmitting their signal to allow for more channels. If the BDF sees this as a good enough reason to include that codec in the BD-RE format they can if they want, but just because one small company does it doesn’t mean they will jump on the bandwagon.

The BD-ROM format is not complete. The BDF is working close to the studios to complete the format as we speak. If the studios decide that they will only use mpeg2, then blu-ray will hard a hard time justifying including another codec. The early version of this format was to use mpeg2 only because it was the codec that gave the best picture quality at the time. Given that at full data rate of 36mbps on a 50GB disk is just over 3 hours, it is plenty enough for pretty much every movie no matter what codec, so picture quality is the only determining factor. Look at the chart at the end of part3 of the .pdf files. The chart shows that only acceptable picture quality for both mpeg2 and mpeg4 was mpeg2 at 24mbps. Similar test was done with vc-9 and mpeg2 was chosen. This is why mpeg2 was originally the codec for this format as well, but since vc-9 and mpeg4 have made major improvement in PQ the BDF has chosen to give it another chance to be included.

Cost of blu-ray is also becoming more and more of a non-issue. Since TDK developed a new hard-coating and dropped the caddies (I actually liked the idea of caddies) for the BD-ROM format, the BDF has determined that it should cost the same if not less than a dvd5 to produce at mass volumes. The expense will actually come from retooling the equipment, which HD-DVD will also have to do. While the retooling to make blu-ray disk will cost more than retooling for HD-DVD, studios will have to retool all of their mpeg2 equipment to make use of the new codec of HD-DVD. So it’s either spend money on one or the other.

Blu-ray also has advantages in other areas as well.

1. Since blu-ray was made from ground up and not based on existed DVD technology, multiple layers are easier to do. DVD9 of today are basically a double-sided DVD that can be read from one side. It is extremely hard and expensive to create a true double-layered DVD, and since 2 layers on one side is extremely hard you rarely find a double-sided, double-layered DVD. With blu-ray this is not the case. TDK has developed a true quad layered blu-ray that is 100gb, and it would have no trouble doing that on a double-sided disk to increase it’s capacity to 200gb. Since HD-DVD is based on old DVD technology, it suffers from more that two layers so it is hard to get past the 30GB limit. This

2. Blu-ray was made for a rewriteable format first and foremost, so it is easier to use this technology as you would a VCR or a floppy disk. This convenience is truly a plus for the format, and combined with a capacity of 50-200GB on a single disk, it really a killer format for PC use.

3. Fast cost dropped is also a great possibility since blu-ray is strongly rumored to be used in the ps3. With millions of blu-ray drives and billions of disks being produced just for ps3, blu-ray can have a mass-market appeal rather quickly if marketed correctly.

4. 13 of the biggest CE companies backing it, enough said.

Also, no company beside CTS has officially backed any format.

Talk is cheap...
 
Tsmit42 said:
PC-Engine said:
Talk is cheap...

Exactly, that's why it is sometimes better to keep quiet.

Exactly especially when your information is not 100% correct. ;)

Thanks for exposing the truth since we desparately needed you to expose to the world the truth...:LOL:

I am posting this because there are a lot of misconceptions about blu-ray floating around the Internet.

I guess your little post on B3D will somehow enlighten the World Wide Web now? :LOL:
 
Instead of just attacking him, why not counter his points so we can learn your POV? Otherwise you're just thread crapping.
 
Ty said:
Instead of just attacking him, why not counter his points so we can learn your POV? Otherwise you're just thread crapping.

Most of that info can be found in the console forum in the BR vs AOD thread.
 
PC-Engine said:
Tsmit42 said:
PC-Engine said:
Talk is cheap...

Exactly, that's why it is sometimes better to keep quiet.

Exactly especially when your information is not 100% correct. ;)
First of all, if I posted something that is not 100% tell me what it is and I will look into it to make sure it is not correct or was orginally correct.

Thanks for exposing the truth since we desparately needed you to expose to the world the truth...:LOL:

I am posting this because there are a lot of misconceptions about blu-ray floating around the Internet.

I guess your little post on B3D will somehow enlighten the World Wide Web now? :LOL:

No, I was just posting for the people who would like the know the truth about blu-ray and not the incorrect stuff they read about the technology. I take it you are not one of those people, you are just trying to ruin a thread.
 
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