Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo's Price drop discussion

MS's will drop the price this spring to prop up demand over the slow months. Its a traditional strategy for console manufacturers so I think going forward price cuts will come from MS and Nintendo this spring.

I think 500k a month at $250.00 in the US that Nintendo is experience now won't happen in February and on. Nintendo also doesn't have to worry about holiday season allocation for the first part of the year and at a 1.8 million a month rate there will be plenty of supply for the Wii.

MS will only have cut $50.00 dollars off the Pro and $20.00 dollars off the Arcade during the 30 months going into spring and with sales better than last generation but less than the amount MS needs to stay competitive with the Wii a spring price drop seems logical.
 
Wouldn't you say that the XBox is in the afterglow of Halo 3 release?
What really matters are the overall sales numbers. ANd those are 13.5 mil against 6.1 mil.

I think both consoles are very similar, and I think that there will be no winner. This market will be 50/50, with a 5 mil advantage for MS.
By the end of this cyle, the numbers will be 50.000 mil MS and 45 mil Sony. A tie...

I repeat: the world is not only the US.

I doubt highly that sales have stabilized just yet. In fact, this time represent the most volatile time period of this generation so far.

Sony's early price cuts might make it difficult to institute another one this spring. If the 360 is price reduced worldwide and Sony is unable to follow suit then its possible that the 360 will gain an advantage that will further open the gap. Or Sony might surprise and reach price parity with the 360 and use its 2008 lineup to pound the 360.
 
Or Sony might surprise and reach price parity with the 360 and use its 2008 lineup to pound the 360.

Every $50 a console manufacturer drops off the price (without corresponding manufacturing cost reductions) corresponds to roughly 5 additional full-price third party games that each additional customer must buy over the lifetime of the console. Sony must be very bold to cut soon again.
 
I expect next MS price drop to be somewhere near April - June next year.

A 100USD drop across all SKUs is what I think they should do. They are getting nice Jasper motherboards that will allow them to make up for the drop.
 
Every $50 a console manufacturer drops off the price (without corresponding manufacturing cost reductions) corresponds to roughly 5 additional full-price third party games that each additional customer must buy over the lifetime of the console. Sony must be very bold to cut soon again.
Not quite. The console companies are paid for discs printed whether they sell or not. Obviously with lower software sales, companies won't print so many discs and Sony won't get so many royalties, but it's not a 1:1 game sales:license fee relationship.
 
360 will drop in price when the next PS3 price drop happens.

Wii will likely drop price end of 08.

At the end of 08, I'd expect the prices to be:
360: 199 core, 299 prem, 349 elite

PS3: 299 low end, 399 high end

Wii: 199

If this happens Ms wil have to bundle quiet some stuffs with the pro pack to make it looks attractive (could be more than two games, two controlers etc, longer free gold subscription, etc)

As it is now I would see
199$ arcade pack (5 arcade games, wireless controler)
279$ pro pack (2games,1 or 2 wireless controler)
349$ elite pack
 
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Every $50 a console manufacturer drops off the price (without corresponding manufacturing cost reductions) corresponds to roughly 5 additional full-price third party games that each additional customer must buy over the lifetime of the console. Sony must be very bold to cut soon again.

Im not saying its likely, but there is always a chance given that the public info around the actual cost of manufacturing of the PS3 is unknown.
 
Back to reality. It's pretty likely we'll see X360 Pro at $299 and X360 Arcade at $229 right around the time of the 65nm switch/GTAIV launch. Then I think they'll stick to that until 2009. There's no real reason to slit their own throats by being too aggressive. Sony can't get to $299 anyway and Blu Ray doesn't have enough traction to make up the $100 difference.

Also, don't underestimate: X360 back log, X360 userbase (people want to have what their friends have), and X360 2008 lineup (which is still quite good - Too Human, Gears of War 2, GTAIV, Banjo, Splinter Cell Conviction, Alan Wake, Lost Odyssee and Fable 2).
 
Back to reality. It's pretty likely we'll see X360 Pro at $299 and X360 Arcade at $229 right around the time of the 65nm switch/GTAIV launch. Then I think they'll stick to that until 2009.

So you think they'll drop the price only once next year, and not significantly?

I take it that you don't believe that the 360 or the PS3 are competing for the same audience as the Wii, then?

There's no real reason to slit their own throats by being too aggressive. Sony can't get to $299 anyway and Blu Ray doesn't have enough traction to make up the $100 difference.

But is that really a determining factor? Does competitor pricing continue to dictate their own pricing strategy for an additional year? Clearly, competitor pricing is what allowed MS to maintain the high (relative) price of their console through 2007.

But there are other factors that come into play, such as the huge hit that MS took due to the warranty and failure rate issues.

Let me ask this question then.

Based upon your position and your current thinking, do you believe that MS would have priced the console more aggressively in 2007 had they not had the manufacturing/return/warranty issues that they encountered?

It seems to me like you are saying that they wouldn't, and I believe that's questionable. I believe if they didn't have the costs associated with the failure rates, they would have dropped the price $100 instead of just $50 this year.

Clearly that's an opinion and entirely speculative. I have nothing to base that on, other than the fact that I believe there really is a magical $199 price point and that MS's strategy from the onset with various sku's has been to reach that $199 price point as quickly as possible.

You're saying that we won't see the Core/Arcade at $199 until sometime in 2009.

I believe that is the price point that major adoption actually takes place, and I find it difficult that MS wants to or is willing to wait 4 years from launch to hit that price point.

I think they probably planned to do it THIS year, but the hardware failure rate and the resulting costs forced them to delay it. The PS3's high cost of entry allowed MS to delay the process and ride their higher price point to recover those costs.

But as I said originally, I still believe that MS wants to play "catch-up" at some point, and it's logical that time would be during 2008.

I do agree that Sony is in a very difficult position with the PS3 and when they can afford to drop the price again. But they've botched the release from the very start (probably even from the design phase), so they are always going to be a step behind.

Nintendo can obviously afford to drop the price of the Wii whenever they want. They're making money on the consoles from the start, and they still can't meet demand in every market. Even regional markets. I've just recently moved from one part of CA to another, and where I was before, I couldn't find a Wii. Now, I can walk into a store and pick one up whenever I want. So it's clearly a regional issue, but it's still a manufacturing issue. And I don't think Nintendo needs to drop the price of the Wii until demand is met and units are sitting on shelves for weeks at a time.
 
I mostly agree with you Rancidlaunchmeat.

Us seems more and more granted for MS, they have made profit last quarter, they will improve these results this quarter (obvious), I'm not sure MS will be very aggressive.
I may have said earlier
229$ arcade 279$ pro 329$ elite by fall 2008 and bundling some game to make those packs more attractive.
And it's really not that bad, but maybe if MS is confident in doing really well in US and want take the chance to establish the xbox as the leading brand in biggest game market they will be more aggressive.
But in fact I would better see MS recovers from xbox losses and invest more in RD for the next xbox, as they will do very well anyway.
 
I'll stick my neck out and predict something more radical:

"X360 Slim" new hardware chassis will come out just in time for 2008 holiday for $199 with nominal storage (perhaps 4 gig flash).

Deluxe models with bundled hard disk will continue to use the existing chassis until sometime in 2009. Perhaps $279 in the 2008 holiday.

Standard hard disk size will be revised from 20 GB to something larger in time for 2008 holiday. 120 GB model will remain the high end item.

The Arcade/Pro/Elite monikers will be retired in favor of new monikers for the 2008 holiday.
 
So you think they'll drop the price only once next year, and not significantly?

I take it that you don't believe that the 360 or the PS3 are competing for the same audience as the Wii, then?

I don't think anyone walking into a store looking for a Wii to play Wii Sports with "that crazy controller" is going to change their mind because an X360 Arcade is only $199. So the short answer to your question is: No. I don't believe the X360 and PS3 are truly competing for the same consumers anymore, except where there is crossover (ie. Wii60).

I don't think the girls who loved Dance Dance Revolution and Singstar and picked up a PS2 are going to be swayed out of getting a Wii by an X360 that is only $199, just to use one example.

With the PS3 priced so high and the X360 with little hope at grabbing that demographic away from the Wii even at $199, I just don't think MS needs to canabalize their revenues.

This generation will probably be a full 6 years, because of Sony misteps and MS warranty issues.
 
I don't think the girls who loved Dance Dance Revolution and Singstar and picked up a PS2 are going to be swayed out of getting a Wii by an X360 that is only $199, just to use one example.

This is what I find strange - I don't think this exact demographic has any kind of brand loyalty.
 
This is what I find strange - I don't think this exact demographic has any kind of brand loyalty.

What do you find strange? What Johnny is doing is lumping together the DDR folks with the Wiiplay folks, saying that they are both the same type of interactive party games.

And it's his opinion that those people have probably already bought a Wii so they aren't going to buy a PS3 to play the next DDR. They're going to get DDR for their Wii instead.

So they are doing exactly what you've said. Demonstrating exactly zero brand loyalty. They were playing DDR on PS2's last generation, this year, they're playing their party games on the Wii.

Zassak: Bold prediction, but I don't think it will happen. MS has invested a great deal of advertising revenue in displaying the 360 shape. I don't see them redesigning the shape of the console any time soon, and that pretty much removes the ability of them to release a "Slim" version. (And this is just addressing it from a marketing perspective, not a hardware perspective.)
 
Here's how I see pricing for MS over the next few years:

1. Spring '08 (GTAIV + 65nm) - Arcade $229, Pro $299
2. 2009 - Arcade $179, Pro $249
3. 2010 (45 nm) - Arcade $129, Pro $199
4. 2011 - Next Generation Xbox - Arcade $99, Pro $149

MS doesn't need to be more aggressive than this.

X360 userbase will be something like this:

2007 - 16 million
2008 - 24 million
2009 - 34 million
2010 - 44 million
2011 - 55 million

All IMO.
 
X360 userbase will be something like this:

2007 - 16 million
2008 - 24 million
2009 - 34 million
2010 - 44 million
2011 - 55 million

All IMO.

Are you expecting a roughly 50/50 split with PS3 towards 2011? In other words, the Xbox360 will take about half of the PS2 console market this gen?
 
Are you expecting a roughly 50/50 split with PS3 towards 2011? In other words, the Xbox360 will take about half of the PS2 console market this gen?

Essentially yes. I think Sony is going to pick up over time. People will want a Blu Ray driven console in 2010 for $249. The main reason why MS won't be able to sell more than 60 million units is that they can't grab 20 million users in Japan like Sony can. So MS will win in the US, probably tie or lose slightly in Europe and get slaughtered in Japan.

It won't shock me at all if the Wii/X360/PS3 end up at 60/60/60 million by 2012. Pretty much a gamer's dream come true with that level of competition.

For reference I originally predicted Sony/MS/Nintendo to split the market 50/35/15, but Nintendo has succeeded in stealing a lot of PS2 casuals and getting some new people into the market as well.
 
For reference I originally predicted Sony/MS/Nintendo to split the market 50/35/15, but Nintendo has succeeded in stealing a lot of PS2 casuals and getting some new people into the market as well.

I suspect that Nintendo shared your sense of what would happen, which is why they gambled on the "Blue Ocean" strategy. I think Nintendo is a real wildcard this gen. The extent to which they are attracting PS2 casuals should take away market share from the Xbox360 and PS3. The extent to which Nintendo is attracting new (or lapsed) gamers should leave the Xbox360 and PS3 markets relatively unscathed.
 
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