Make educated guess of DurangOrbis die sizes, tdps, and costs based on VGLeaks

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Format
Console:
CPU: size, tdp
GPU: size, tdp
SOC: size, tdp

Examples (totally uneducated):
ORBIS
8 core jaguar CPU: 50mm^2, 25w
18CU R10xx: 200mm^2, 100W
DSPs, Decoders, etc: 15mm^2, 10W
4GB GDDR5: N/A, 40W
Total Liverpool APU: 300mm^2, 140W

DURANGO:
8 core jaguar CPU: 50mm^2, 25w
12CU R10xx: 140mm^2, 75W
32mb ESRAM: 50mm^2, 25W
DSPs, Decoders, DME, ec: 25mm^2, 15W
8GB DDR3: N/A, 20W
Total SOC including northbridge: 400mm^2, 160W
 
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I don't see the point in individual costs (CPU/GPU/esram/dsps/DME/etc) since they're SOC. You just need die-per-wafer calculator, yields, and a range of $5k-7.5K per wafer.
 
How exactly is a 12CU R10X going to be smaller than a direct linear scale of a 18CU R10X?
200 *12/18 = 133.3333mm and I'd expect there to be things that don't have to scale in the design so the 12CU part is probably larger than te direct scale down.

IF both machines are using APU's I'd guess the overall sizes would be very similar. They'd pick the size based on cost (read projected yields), and I'd bet there is some sort of obvious knee in the Area vs yield curve for a given process.
 
Those numbers in the OP are pretty much 100% bogus (edram won't draw 25W, nor will a handful of GDDR modules eat 40W for example), so I don't see how this thread could go anywhere.
 
Grall said:
Those numbers in the OP are pretty much 100% bogus (edram won't draw 25W, nor will a handful of GDDR modules eat 40W for example), so I don't see how this thread could go anywhere.
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I thougt esram is hotter, more expensive, and bigger than edram?
 
You're not going to find 32MB of actual SRAM in a console, that would take up an absolutely massive amount of silicon, and be horrifically expensive. It would also not make sense from a performance perspective, as DRAM would be quite sufficient at a much, much lower cost.

In any case, SRAM doesn't draw much power overall as transistors draw most of their power when they switch states, and SRAM, mostly being static, will only have a tiny fraction of its transistors switching at any one time...
 
Grall said:
You're not going to find 32MB of actual SRAM in a console, that would take up an absolutely massive amount of silicon, and be horrifically expensive. It would also not make sense from a performance perspective, as DRAM would be quite sufficient at a much, much lower cost.

In any case, SRAM doesn't draw much power overall as transistors draw most of their power when they switch states, and SRAM, mostly being static, will only have a tiny fraction of its transistors switching at any one time...
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So is Esram different from SRAM?

Unless VGLeaks is wrong, and they have been very good so far, I would place my money on 32mb of Esram in the console.

Cameras already carry few megs of SRAM, so I don't see what's outrageous about 32mb of sram in Durango.
 
Well there are people that think it's probably 1T-sram which isn't actually sram at all, it's dram.
 
Then, why not to say "1t-sram" instead eSRAM?

What vgleaks is saying:

September:
DirectX 11.x GPU The Alpha kit uses a discrete graphics card similar in capability and speed to the GPU that will be included in the final design. The card does not have the ESRAM that the final design GPU will.
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January:
- 32 MB of fast embedded SRAM (ESRAM) (102 GB/s)
Click to expand...
 
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Until people actually KNOW what is in there, they are going to speculate. I'd say we're a long way from knowing.
 
XpiderMX said:
Then, why not to say "1t-sram" instead eSRAM?
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I wouldn't know what is true at this point, but my theory is that someone read the word ESRAM somewhere, and used it. Since 99% of the people in the console rumor mill wouldn't know what SRAM (or any other acronym, abbreviation, or technical term) means, they wouldn't know if it was wrong or not.
 
3dilettante said:
I wouldn't know what is true at this point, but my theory is that someone read the word ESRAM somewhere, and used it. Since 99% of the people in the console rumor mill wouldn't know what SRAM (or any other acronym, abbreviation, or technical term) means, they wouldn't know if it was wrong or not.
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No, that was my original assumption, but I think the current rumored specs are cut and pasted, probably from an MS presentation, so I think the reference to ESRAM is likely correct.
It could be some some EDRAM variant with an SRAM name, but that pool is very small if it's conventional EDRAM.
 
ERP said:
No, that was my original assumption, but I think the current rumored specs are cut and pasted, probably from an MS presentation, so I think the reference to ESRAM is likely correct.
It could be some some EDRAM variant with an SRAM name, but that pool is very small if it's conventional EDRAM.
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I assumed the VGLeaks block diagram of Durango was some sort of official MS slide after Lherre and Thuway over at GAF both hinted they'd seen it before.

As it stands, I take it as some sort of SRAM. VGLeaks hopefully shed more light on it soon.
 
On wether ESRAM is actually SRAM or not, go take a look at a die shot of a sandybridge-E processor. There's 15MB of cache on that chip. Note how much of the die area, proportionally speaking, is occupied by the cache. Now think of what it would be like with double that amount of cache.

I think I made my point. ;)
 
Grall said:
On wether ESRAM is actually SRAM or not, go take a look at a die shot of a sandybridge-E processor. There's 15MB of cache on that chip. Note how much of the die area, proportionally speaking, is occupied by the cache. Now think of what it would be like with double that amount of cache.

I think I made my point. ;)
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I agree it would be an enormous amount of die area, would certainly account for any deficit in CU's that might exist. And you'd have to believe that you get something for that area.

Anyway I wouldn't rule out it being EDRAM cells with an SRAM name, guess we'll find out when we get die shots.
 
ERP said:
I agree it would be an enormous amount of die area, would certainly account for any deficit in CU's that might exist. And you'd have to believe that you get something for that area.

Anyway I wouldn't rule out it being EDRAM cells with an SRAM name, guess we'll find out when we get die shots.
Click to expand...

How much space is 32mb of esram? Are we talking >100mm^2?
 
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