Madden NFL Football game looking amazing on PS3

[Qroach]

if there is a year of difference between xbox2 and PS3 launch

Look at PC graphics technology (the same basica tech going into the consoles in one form or another). Can you honetly tell the difference betwee the top of the line vide card out on the market a year ago, compared to todays top of the line card, outside of "performance"?

Or is it just because known PC graphics technology makers are involved in all three.... because you really can't see differences in nVidia GeForceWahoo! and Ati RadeonYowza! PC cards if one of them is running on Intel Zzapp 2GHz and the other on AMD64 Brrooom 4 Ghz?.. at least in screenshots

I think you hit the nail on the head.

 

[Kill_Jade]

i have a hard time believing that we'll see a jump in graphics as large as ps1->ps2 with ps3 (compared to this current gen). things are already looking pretty good, and the slew ov excellent looking software just over the horizon (splinter cell chaos theory, farcry instincts, unreal chamionship 2) show that amazing things can still be done with today's hardware. the main differance will be in resolution (both screen res and texture res with support for high def displays, better and more use of fsaa, and a general reduction in jaggies) and more use of "cinimatic" framebuffer effects (more common use of depth of field, motion blur, ect). overall, especialy with launch titles, i think the differance will be noticable but not jaw dropping. maybe like the jump from dreamcast to xbox.

maybe it's just me but Xbox games are pretty much jaw-dropping when compared to DC games. and i dont see why its hard to believe there will be a nice jump between now and the next-gen systems. as for the differences between Xbox2 and PS3 we dont know anything about them to form any sort of opinion. i mean look at PS2 and xbox. you can see a difference between the two. often it's not a big one, but other times it is. who is to say it wont be the dame next-gen?

 

[Mythos]

Right.

And not knowing anything solid about next generation console can be a quess at anything. With that in mind... it is possible as well, knowing that current generation of games seem for the most part in line with each other. All next generation consoles COULD have certain features to individuate one from the other. This would diffentely be a good strategy to bring gamers on to their specific platform!

 

[see colon]

maybe it's just me but Xbox games are pretty much jaw-dropping when compared to DC games.

right. xbox games look noticibly better tha dc games, and they should. what i'm saying is that if you compare the ps1 to ps2 the ps2 is rediculously better. if you look at xbox and dreamcast there is a difference, but not of the same magnitude. we are reaching a point of diminishing returns in regards to graphics. the shift next gen is going to be more twords cinimatic framebuffer effects and less tword "look how many polygons we are throwing around" like we've seen in the past.

i'm just saying that there isn't going to be as big of a differance graphicly in this upcoming generation. it'll definatly be better looking, but not in the same magnitude.

 

[Iron Tiger]

i have a hard time believing that we'll see a jump in graphics as large as ps1->ps2 with ps3 (compared to this current gen). things are already looking pretty good, and the slew ov excellent looking software just over the horizon (splinter cell chaos theory, farcry instincts, unreal chamionship 2) show that amazing things can still be done with today's hardware. the main differance will be in resolution (both screen res and texture res with support for high def displays, better and more use of fsaa, and a general reduction in jaggies) and more use of "cinimatic" framebuffer effects (more common use of depth of field, motion blur, ect). overall, especialy with launch titles, i think the differance will be noticable but not jaw dropping. maybe like the jump from dreamcast to xbox.

All the features you mentioned that will see an increase in the next generation also got increased in the current generation. Resolution, FSAA, framebuffer effects were all boosted or more heavily used this generation from the last, plus polygon counts being increased by an order of magnitude. I believe if a developer were to target a system with fixed specs as "lowly" (by next gen console standards) as my 2.4GHz AXP system with an X800 XT PE, they could produce 10x the amount of polys per frame (at HDTV resolutions w/AA and AF) of current gen consoles. And next gen consoles are supposed to be much better spec'ed than my PC, so I wouldn't sell them short. This is an age where we've even got a portable that has DC quality graphics (and another one on the way).

 

[Titanio]

Or is it just because known PC graphics technology makers are involved in all three.... because you really can't see differences in nVidia GeForceWahoo! and Ati RadeonYowza! PC cards if one of them is running on Intel Zzapp 2GHz and the other on AMD64 Brrooom 4 Ghz?.. at least in screenshots

I think you hit the nail on the head.

He might have if that logic wasn't directly applicable to consoles. Whilst you may not see much difference between Nvidia card X on an Intel 2Ghz and ATi card Y on a AMD 3 Ghz in PC land, that's as likely due to the nature of PC games development rather than any lack of potential for differences. On a console, the closed-box nature of development means that differences between hardware are more likely to be appreciable and noticeable in games. I'm not saying that I think this will be the case, just that drawing analogies with PCs is a little misleading IMO.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Hmm. Would you not say Toy Story's graphics are an order of magnitude beyond PS2? And how's about the Final Fantasy Movie? There's definitely a lot of room for improvement and next-gen should make the leap. Most importantly, consistent 60 fps frame rate, no aliasing, huge view range and squillions of things on screen at once, creating hugely complex scenes.

I'm willing and ready to be bowled over (though 'coz I'm expecting it, I doubt I'll be that impressed!)

 

[Titanio]

Hmm. Would you not say Toy Story's graphics are an order of magnitude beyond PS2? And how's about the Final Fantasy Movie? There's definitely a lot of room for improvement and next-gen should make the leap.

Hmm...careful! With those kind of expectations someone's cruising toward disappointment

 

[Iron Tiger]

Hmm. Would you not say Toy Story's graphics are an order of magnitude beyond PS2? And how's about the Final Fantasy Movie? There's definitely a lot of room for improvement and next-gen should make the leap.

Hmm...careful! With those kind of expectations someone's cruising toward disappointment

Yeah, like anyone that was expectant of that for THIS generation. I expect some movie CG-quality graphics next gen, but not large worlds filled with that level of detail. It's probably too much to ask of the hardware, and certainly too much to expect a developer to create for realtime interactivity.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Didn't say I was expecting that level of improvement, only that this idea of 'diminishing returns' is premature. We're nowhere near what is the absolute maximum possible in real-time quality, and there'll be several leaps of performance (like PS1->PS2) 'til we get there.

To get from current generation to true ToyStory realtime will need more polygons, better shaders and higher-resolution rendering with AA, things next-gen will offer and as such, should provide that next step in quality. As I see it the most limiting factor will be memory for high-quality textures.

 

[Kill_Jade]

Didn't say I was expecting that level of improvement, only that this idea of 'diminishing returns' is premature. We're nowhere near what is the absolute maximum possible in real-time quality, and there'll be several leaps of performance (like PS1->PS2) 'til we get there.

To get from current generation to true ToyStory realtime will need more polygons, better shaders and higher-resolution rendering with AA, things next-gen will offer and as such, should provide that next step in quality. As I see it the most limiting factor will be memory for high-quality textures.

you beat me to it . look at movies like the CG skit from The Animatrix. or any recent Pixar movie. i also find it hard to believe that with each passing gen of consoles we will see less improvments.. using that belief it would then take years and years to reach Animatrix level.

 

[jvd]

Didn't say I was expecting that level of improvement, only that this idea of 'diminishing returns' is premature. We're nowhere near what is the absolute maximum possible in real-time quality, and there'll be several leaps of performance (like PS1->PS2) 'til we get there.

To get from current generation to true ToyStory realtime will need more polygons, better shaders and higher-resolution rendering with AA, things next-gen will offer and as such, should provide that next step in quality. As I see it the most limiting factor will be memory for high-quality textures.

you beat me to it . look at movies like the CG skit from The Animatrix. or any recent Pixar movie. i also find it hard to believe that with each passing gen of consoles we will see less improvments.. using that belief it would then take years and years to reach Animatrix level.

Of course your going to see dimishing returns .

How much better did shrek 2 look over finding nemo ? HOw much better did shrek 2 look over shrek ?

Your coming to a point where with the psone we had 100k polygons a second to 10-20 million polgyons a second . Is a huge jump .

But when u go from 10-20 million to 100-200million the jump isn't going to be as big because the improvements will be in the small details .

 

[pc999]

It is not the jump that is small it is our perception (human) of the jump, when you see UE3 or Pixar in tech there is a brutal jump, but in perception the jump it is not so big.

 

[Phil]

Quincy,

Look at PC graphics technology (the same basica tech going into the consoles in one form or another). Can you honetly tell the difference betwee the top of the line vide card out on the market a year ago, compared to todays top of the line card, outside of "performance"?

And that "performance" difference will be ultimately making a difference when two games are both programmed to take advantage at the same framerate. It's also very flawed in the assumption that the GPU is going to be the definite factor of the console's overal performance.

 

[see colon]

I believe if a developer were to target a system with fixed specs as "lowly" (by next gen console standards) as my 2.4GHz AXP system with an X800 XT PE, they could produce 10x the amount of polys per frame (at HDTV resolutions w/AA and AF) of current gen consoles. And next gen consoles are supposed to be much better spec'ed than my PC, so I wouldn't sell them short.

and that's the point of diminishing returns. they might be pushing 10x the poly's but you won't be able to tell if it's 10x or 2x. the jump from ps1->ps2 was huge, a magintude in the hundreds and you could definatly see it in pretty much ever title. yes there will be higher poly counts next gen, but the big *wow* features next gen will revolve around cinimatic filters in game, not about the standards of the past (polycount, prite count, color count).

 

[Kill_Jade]

I believe if a developer were to target a system with fixed specs as "lowly" (by next gen console standards) as my 2.4GHz AXP system with an X800 XT PE, they could produce 10x the amount of polys per frame (at HDTV resolutions w/AA and AF) of current gen consoles. And next gen consoles are supposed to be much better spec'ed than my PC, so I wouldn't sell them short.

and that's the point of diminishing returns. they might be pushing 10x the poly's but you won't be able to tell if it's 10x or 2x. the jump from ps1->ps2 was huge, a magintude in the hundreds and you could definatly see it in pretty much ever title. yes there will be higher poly counts next gen, but the big *wow* features next gen will revolve around cinimatic filters in game, not about the standards of the past (polycount, prite count, color count).

you and jvd make good points. in that case wont these "filters" and other graphical techniques produce a healthy jump from this gen to next?

 

[London Geezer]

you and jvd make good points. in that case wont these "filters" and other graphical techniques produce a healthy jump from this gen to next?

Yes, i think what they're trying to say, unsuccessfully, is that those filters or other features won't be quantifiable things. People won't look at whatever new feature these new consoles have and go "oooh that's 30X more powerful than ps2!!". And they wont be able to quantify the increase in polygonal performance because we have lots of it already, and a 3X increase wont look much different from a 18.83^5X increase.
The big numbers only take you so far.

 

[see colon]

yeah, that's what i'm saying. i'm also saying that next generation is just going to do waht we see in the highest end games of this generation, only more often and at higher quality. we already have games that use cinematic framebuffer effects, programable shaders, and reasonibly high poly counts. we're just going to see these things more often and in heavier combinations.

when comparing psx to ps2 there are a slew of new features. i'm just saying there will be some minor features added in the upcoming gen and everything else will just be better versions of stuff we've already seen.

 

[Polarbear53]

If you're going to try to make another large jump from xbox to next gen, I think HD is a must, no 480p. When I put halo 2 in 480p(my first 480p game) and in widescreen, I was dissapointed, I was on a HD DLP, and I thought it looked like crap. So I just can't wait for HD gaming.

 

[Wunderchu]

example pic. from Madden 2001 on PS1:

(source: http://media.psx.ign.com/media/014/014648/img_1355042.html )





example pic. from Madden 2005 on PS2:

(source: http://media.ps2.ign.com/media/620/620934/img_2248662.html )





example pic. from Madden 2009 on PS3?:

http://www.1up.com/media?id=1328795&type=lg (source: http://www.1up.com/do/imageDisplay?id=1328795 )





(one may remember the last pic from the "EA next gen. teaser"s talked about here before; http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18655 )



.. to tell you the truth, if the leap from PS2 to PS3 is around the same as the leap from PS1 to PS2 , I do expect Madden 2009 on PS3 to look at least as good as in that last pic...