Listen to me whine about insipid AI

[Legion]

I don't know about all of you but i am damn tired of playing games where friendlies and or foes have the problem solving capacity of a keychain solar powered calculator. I am so damned tired of being in situations where i have to either protect individuals natural selection would have already weeded out by their age of 5 or fight along side friendlies who have no qualms fragging you with whatever means possible to get at their enemy. On the other hand i am also somewhat aggravated by AIs who are the exact opposite. Cases in point;

Star Ocean III: Friendly AI is by far the worst of any RPG i have yet played. Your allies will consistently concentrate their attacks on the most lethal enemies while using their weakest set of attacks. Assinine. More often then not on higher levels they'll end up killing themselves or you.

MOH:RS: Enemy AI sucks. Period. Many a time i became confused as to whom my allies where as the enemies would often "forget" to shoot me or act as though i were some how invisible.

Chrome: WTF. At the begining of the game you start out with the support of a fellow mercenary who is completely without the interest of sharing kills. He will engage enemies at ranges you can't even perceive with your machine gun's scope and kill them. Often times this will leave you to wonder if you have infact even scored a hit on said enemies.

 

[cthellis42]

<listens to Legion whine about insipid AI>

Haven't played the games you mention to really know/compare, but to me solid AI advancements will be FAR more appreciated than anything else. I certainly like cooler graphics, and realistic physics rock, but AI is crucial to the gameplay itself...! Little bits can go a long way.

 

[Fox5]

MOH:RS: Enemy AI sucks. Period. Many a time i became confused as to whom my allies where as the enemies would often "forget" to shoot me or act as though i were some how invisible.

Maybe the enemies were feeling the same way about you!

 

[Legion]

MOH:RS: Enemy AI sucks. Period. Many a time i became confused as to whom my allies where as the enemies would often "forget" to shoot me or act as though i were some how invisible.

Maybe the enemies were feeling the same way about you!

Or maybe the AI is shit?

 

[Legion]

<listens to Legion whine about insipid AI>

Haven't played the games you mention to really know/compare, but to me solid AI advancements will be FAR more appreciated than anything else. I certainly like cooler graphics, and realistic physics rock, but AI is crucial to the gameplay itself...! Little bits can go a long way.

Games like SO3 and MOH:RS lose their fun factors to the poor programming of their respective AIs. They are absolutely atrocious. SO3 is just so damned aggrivating. The game is made difficult simply because your friendlies will make so many crucial mistakes. My favorite is the classic dear-in-the-head-lights routine. Your friends will often freeze up in combat. They won't move or attack. They will simply stand still and allow an enemy to beat on them.

 

[Blade]

A lot of A.I. is retarded, but I remember joking about Mario Party 4's more than usual.

The CPU characters in Party Mode are close to retarded, even on Hard Mode. They make idiotic decisions.

Fortunately, the CPU seems to be more intelligent in MP5.. but anyways..

 

[Legion]

Even in half life 2 i see characters making stupid decisions. Which is rather depressing considerin HL had pretty decent AI.

I still remember the propagand from Valve. Sophisticated nonscripted AI my ass.

 

[passerby]

Have not tried something with bad AI for a long time - spotted potential candidates and stayed away from them. For example, just thinking about SO3's combat system raises the question - is the AI really good enough to do THAT? The direct answer may be to improve AI, but a better and more practical answer may be to rework the combat system itself.

Having said that, there is one title with impressive AI that I'm going through now - SRW:SC. The units really do what the commands say - and very effectively. The agile Gundams are most interesting to watch as they parry and dodge attacks effectively. Very nice to see a Gundam dodge an attack, easily sliding to the flank/back of an enemy and deliver a slice with the beam sabre.

 

[Legion]

Have not tried something with bad AI for a long time - spotted potential candidates and stayed away from them. For example, just thinking about SO3's combat system raises the question - is the AI really good enough to do THAT?

Killing themselves. They can do that.

The direct answer may be to improve AI, but a better and more practical answer may be to rework the combat system itself.

The system isn't so much the problem as the AI is simply is instructed to us low level attacks. Then there is the issue of freezing...

Having said that, there is one title with impressive AI that I'm going through now - SRW:SC. The units really do what the commands say - and very effectively. The agile Gundams are most interesting to watch as they parry and dodge attacks effectively. Very nice to see a Gundam dodge an attack, easily sliding to the flank/back of an enemy and deliver a slice with the beam sabre.

Sounds interesting. I guess that is better than being killed by a friendly in Rogue Spear when he forgets to throw the hand grenade he armed.

 

[mech]

AI is really really REALLY hard to program. Which is why it's generally crap.

And people pay way more attention to graphics than AI, and good AI chews up a LOT of cycles.

 

[nondescript]

AI is harder to show off than a glossy polished graphics. It takes more work too, in my opinion. (AI programming classes much harder than graphics ones). AI = More work, less bragging rights. Don't expect this to change any time soon.

 

[London Geezer]

I couldn't agree more with Legion. Games need radical changes in the way they PLAY, and AI, together with animation and physics is something that will have to be sorted out sooner or later or people will get bored quicklier and quicklier.

i think the next BIG challenge will be to make games move and play realistically, since the shiny-shine (sorry... ) factor is already at a point of diminishing returns.

the most room for improvement now is in the AI/animation.

I don't think anyone would be impressed in the next generation if the only bump was in graphics, as good as they will be. i'm sorry but as good as FFX looked, the animation KILLED the whole experience for me. (didnt keep me from playing it 140 hours, but i'm just saying)...

anyone agree?

 

[MfA]

I see the problem with AI not as a problem of cycles but as a problem of noone knowing a good solution period, no matter how many classes they took (apart from pathfinding).

IMO the way to do interesting behaviour is lots and lots of scripting, the more the better.

 

[London Geezer]

I see the problem with AI not as a problem of cycles but as a problem of noone knowing a good solution period, no matter how many classes they took (apart from pathfinding).

IMO the way to do interesting behaviour is lots and lots of scripting, the more the better.

i'm sure one day, far far into the future, adaptive behaviour models will be good enough to fake it pretty well.....

 

[MfA]

They arent here now, and it is not a computational problem.

 

[rabidrabbit]

If MfA's response was for l-b and arent=are then

 

[swaaye]

I'd say what we need are some licensable AI modules or something, similar to how there are physics packages showing up (Havok.)

There are certainly people out there who are EXTREMELY talented at making AI.

Expecting a developer's in-house team to pull off human-level intelligence in code is a little much. It's just way too complicated and time-demanding to be viable.

 

[Bohdy]

Maybe Silicon Knights can do something special in the field of AI eventually?

I've been playing some old games of theirs and reading some developer notes at the end of the manuals, and it seems that Dyak is a big expert on AI and Neural Networks....

 

[Legion]

I couldn't agree more with Legion. Games need radical changes in the way they PLAY, and AI, together with animation and physics is something that will have to be sorted out sooner or later or people will get bored quicklier and quicklier.

i think the next BIG challenge will be to make games move and play realistically, since the shiny-shine (sorry... ) factor is already at a point of diminishing returns.

the most room for improvement now is in the AI/animation.

I don't think anyone would be impressed in the next generation if the only bump was in graphics, as good as they will be. i'm sorry but as good as FFX looked, the animation KILLED the whole experience for me. (didnt keep me from playing it 140 hours, but i'm just saying)...

anyone agree?

just give me a mode where i can kill my own characters who governed by said AI and i'll be fine.

 

[epicstruggle]

I'd say what we need are some licensable AI modules or something, similar to how there are physics packages showing up (Havok.)

There are certainly people out there who are EXTREMELY talented at making AI.

Expecting a developer's in-house team to pull off human-level intelligence in code is a little much. It's just way too complicated and time-demanding to be viable.

interesting, however, game ai (depending on type of game) is very hard. Im suprised the military hasnt funded ai soldiers for training real life soldiers.

later,
epic