Just wondering about lighting on ps2

[fearsomepirate]

Here's what I'm talking about as far as just using a big ol' polygon instead of a lightmap or something:

Here's an example of a scene from a Jak game lacking the kind of effects we're talking about:

There seem to be some sort of framebuffer effects or something, but no actual light. And frankly, I don't consider muzzle flashes and light from explosions to be minor effects. I've been using guns as makeshift flashlights in dark areas since Quake 2. Then this console generation hit, and I discovered that lighting engines had mysteriously regressed since those days in that regard the first time I tried to use a machine gun to light my way in Timesplitters. And that's true of an awful lot of PS2 games, so I'm going to go ahead and say that the resources just aren't there for games on the scale of Jak & Ratchet.

 

[pixelbox]

well from what i got from all of this is that it is possible to have dynamic moving light sources, but if you want high poly counts you have to either reduce or take them out. this is due to ps2's "gpu" not having enough time to light them. this decidsion is on the developer's hands and not ps2's problem. no one uses ps2 to it's full potential so it's hard to tell what's going on according to developers here. and r.and.c uses dynamic lights, it's caused by the whip.

 

[!eVo!-X Ant UK]

Did'nt Ghost hunter on PS2 ( made by studio cambridge ) have dynamic lighting???

 

[London Geezer]

What is the purpose of this forum? Why does it exist? I ask these things because everytime i ask a question, i get bad rep points. Not that i care but you can't ask a question here. im trying to seek enlightenment so i ask questions. i wasn't sure you guys knew what i was talking about, since i don't know a lot of terms, so i repeated some comments. what the hell is wrong with that? im not trying to spam, flame, or propagate. it's whatever.

Maybe because you just won't listen?

You ask a question, people respond, but you keep going at it over and over, even after 2 PS2 developers have answered and corrected you.
Same thing for that fearsomepirate guy who still feels like he has to prove his point by posting screenshots of 2 games out of a library of about 5000 titles.
I can post screenshots of Xbox gams with no bump mapping whatsoever, does that mean that the Xbox can't do bump mapping? NO!
Get it over with and don't complain when you get bad rep cause that will get you even more bad rep.

 

[pixelbox]

Maybe because you just won't listen?

You ask a question, people respond, but you keep going at it over and over, even after 2 PS2 developers have answered and corrected you.
Same thing for that fearsomepirate guy who still feels like he has to prove his point by posting screenshots of 2 games out of a library of about 5000 titles.
I can post screenshots of Xbox gams with no bump mapping whatsoever, does that mean that the Xbox can't do bump mapping? NO!
Get it over with and don't complain when you get bad rep cause that will get you even more bad rep.

I wasn't sure if you guys knew what i was talking about. that's why i keep going over it. I thought maybe i wasn't explaining it right. And the other guy said i got a bad rep for making a silly thread. I thought this was a site where you can discuss things like this no matter how old.

 

[pixelbox]

Did'nt Ghost hunter on PS2 ( made by studio cambridge ) have dynamic lighting???

yeah it had a ton. poly count wasn't bad...but it wasn't good either. nice looking g though

 

[fearsomepirate]

Same thing for that fearsomepirate guy who still feels like he has to prove his point by posting screenshots of 2 games out of a library of about 5000 titles.
I can post screenshots of Xbox gams with no bump mapping whatsoever, does that mean that the Xbox can't do bump mapping? NO!
Get it over with and don't complain when you get bad rep cause that will get you even more bad rep.

I'm not saying that PS2 can't do point light sourcing, especially because it's done in all the Namco fighters, Ghost Hunter, Silent Hill, etc. Further, someone earlier said Jak and Ratchet had the effects we were talking about, and I was pointing out that they didn't. How far back does your long-term memory go? The point I was making is that lighting clearly comes with a geometry tradeoff. Games with lots of geometry have very little in the way of light mapping and point-sourced vertex lighting. Games with more lighting effects have less geometry. Acting like the tradeoff isn't there is to just ignore the results developers actually get out of the system. If it's so easy to do, why can't anyone do it?

And now that you mention it, Xbox has the same tradeoff when you have heavy vertex shader effects, if Riddick and Doom 3 are any indication.

 

[London Geezer]

I'm not saying that PS2 can't do point light sourcing, especially because it's done in all the Namco fighters, Ghost Hunter, Silent Hill, etc. Further, someone earlier said Jak and Ratchet had the effects we were talking about, and I was pointing out that they didn't. How far back does your long-term memory go? The point I was making is that lighting clearly comes with a geometry tradeoff. Games with lots of geometry have squat in the way of light mapping and vertex lighting. Games with more lighting effects have less geometry. Acting like the tradeoff isn't there is to just ignore the results developers actually get out of the system.

And now that you mention it, Xbox has the same tradeoff when you have heavy vertex shader effects, if Riddick and Doom 3 are any indication.

Whoever said there isn't a compromise? Of course there is a compromise for anything, and there will be until we have infinite processing power. So what exactly is your point?

I can tell you that Jak2 definately has dinamic lighting, whether you see it or not.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Whoever said there isn't a compromise?

Earlier, someone said, "the PS2 simply has no trouble with the kind of operations being talked about here and the examples given do not prove otherwise." Seems pretty clear from the actual software out there that there are some pretty significant compromises if you want to have lots of lights everywhere. If the PS2 has no trouble with it, then why isn't it done very much?

Of course there is a compromise for anything, and there will be until we have infinite processing power. So what exactly is your point?

I can tell you that Jak2 definately has dinamic lighting, whether you see it or not.

Yes, and I can tell you that Jak 2 has dynamic lighting as well, so what's your point? Pixelbox misspoke; he meant moving point-source lights when he said "dynamic lighting," i.e. muzzle flashes, projectile glow, flashlights, etc.

Anyway, I think there's nothing really left to talk about here...

 

[London Geezer]

Anyway, I think there's nothing really left to talk about here...

Exactly.