'Islamising' the war ?

Sabastian said:
Silent_One said:
In an interesting article written in The New York Times Magiazine on March 23, 2003, "The Philosopher of Islamic Terror" the author Paul Berman wrote of the etiology of the current terrorists philosophy. The philosopher, named Sayyid Qutb, wrote, while in Egyptian prison, what has come to be the guide, if you will, of Al Qaeda: he is their Karl Marx.

Sayyid Qutb wrote that his social idea for muslims was "Islamist". He wanted to turn Islam into a political movement to create a new society to be based upon ancient Koranic Principals. This is the "social mechanism" that the Islamic Jihad and others operate by. There is a differance between Islam, the religion, and the Islamist, which is a political movement. The religion is peacefull. The Islamist is not.

Hrm that is interesting. I don't think I would dissagree with that sort of conclusion. The formation of Fundamentalist Islamic States is a very anti democratic mentality AFAICT.

Here is an excellent source of info on the Islamic Jihad. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005TPOO/ref=ase_pedalcarscom/102-2108043-6402506

Here are some 48 points about the Jihad from the book. "Terrorist Among Us - The Jihad in America (2001)." Shocking really.

1) Within the borders of the United States, terrorist agents raise money, train, plot and plan their international networks of Islamic extremists committed to Jihad in America. It's threat is more relevant and pressing than ever.

2) The terrorists wish a holy war or armed struggle to defeat the non-believers (infidels) and establish their ultimate goal, an Islamic empire across the face of the Earth.

3) In 1981 Islamic militants assasinated Egyptian president Anwar Sadat, America's closest Arab ally. This gave the radicals the confidence that they can strike their enemies at will.

4) Sheik Abdullah Azzam (a Palestinian who fought against regimes he believed were puppets of the US and Israel) oversaw the American headquarters at the Al-Kifah Refugee Center in Brooklyn, N.Y. The literal translation of their letterhead from Arabic means, "Office of Services to the Holy Warriors." From the AKRC, a sophisticated network of centers in 38 cities across the U.S.A. has been organized, supporting Jihad around the world and recruiting members for Jihad. From these centers they raised money, recruited thousands of muslim fighters for Afganisthan and later this network was transformed into an international Jihad network. At a recruiting meeting in Brooklyn, Sheik Abdullah Azzam spoke as follows:

"Oh brothers. After Afganistan (it's liberation) nothing in the world is impossible anymore. There are no superpowers or minipowers. What matters is the willpower that springs from our religious beliefs. There is no turning back from this tone to the blissful, to the Uzi, to the Karnam, to the RPG. And then you can expect Allah's ultimate victory."

5) "Anti-American militants found that the U.S.A. was the best place to produce films, videos, collect funds, disseminate propaganda and build their political organization, which extends around the world."
[Oliver B. Revell, Former F.B.I. Official & Counter Terrorism Expert]

6) Tamin Al-Adnani (A Palestinian Sheik, a vigorous fundraiser and recruiter of fighting members and Azzam's top aide) stated in Kansas in 1988:

"We solve our problems in the trenches, not in the hotels... [By] fighting... Best thing is continued Jihad. Nothing but Jihad. Even after liberation of Afganisthan, continue Jihad in [all the other countries]... We will not stop. We have promised Allah we will liberate Palestine. If anybody steps in the way, Oh my God, I will step on him... We will smash them. If any ruler will not let us go, we will go by force."

7) At the First conference on Jihad held in Brooklyn, N.Y. Azzam urged attendees to wage Jihad everywhere. In his words: " The word Jihad means fighting only... fighting with the sword. "

8 ) Azzam was assassinated in 1989 in Pakisthan, making him a martyr to radical Muslims everywhere. Azzam's cousin Fayiz Azzam called even louder in Atlanta in 1990 for Jihad, words which we sadly see being put into action.

"Allah's religion be praised ... must offer martyrs. Blood must flow. There must be widows and there must be orphans. Hands and limbs must be cut and the limbs and flood must be spread everywhere in order that Allahs religion stand on it's feet."

9) Sheik Tamim Al-Adnani in Brooklyn urged attendees to a conference to prepare for the holy war. A number of attendees were later suspects in the WTC bombing. He encouraged shooting practice and stated,

"Brothers, I encourage you to attend the shooting practice. There is nothing greater than the power of the shot... He who has begun learning how to shoot and did not go through with the training is not one of us. And from here we move on to the true shooting, against the enemies of Allah..."

10) Sayyed Nosair (An Egyptian immigrant, left) was arrested in November, 1990, for the murder of activist Rabbi Meir Kahane (founder of the Jewish Defense League, who advocated the expulsion of the Arabs from Israel, right). The judge in the trial, Alvin Schlesinger stated that never in his life had he seen "such raw, red, hatred, that existed between any groups or persons... it was the kind of hatred that went far beyond any doctrine or cause. It was raw, red and violent."

Among Nosair's personal possessions (one of the largest collection of terrorist materials ever found in the U.S., which were overlooked until after the WTC bombing) were plans for blowing up U.S. skyscrapers, formulas for bomb making, detailed aircraft attack plans, assassination targets and classified military documents. The papers also revealed that Nosair was at the heart of a worldwide terrorist network, headquartered in the U.S.A.

Nosair had spelled out his plans in a notebook,

"We have to thoroughly demoralize the enemies of God, by means of destroying and blowing up the towers that constitute the pillars of their civilization, such as the tourist attractions they are so proud of, and the high buildings they are proud of."

11) Sheik Omar Abdul Rahman (the leader of the militant Egyptian movement) took control of the Jihad movement in the U.S.A. in 1990. The killing of Rabbi Meir Kahane was one of the first acts of terrorism alledgedly attributed to Rahman. It is also well known that he helped entice radicals to kill Anwar Sadat.

12) Sheik Omar Abdul Rahman actively recruited followers across the United States. He has since been convicted for his involvement in the East African Embassy attacks and is serving time in a US prison. He spoke in Detroit in 1991 as follows:

"The obligation of Allah is upon us to wage Jihad for the sake of Allah. It is one of the obligations which we must undoubtedly fulfill... And we conquer the land of the infidels, and we spread Islam, by calling the infidels to Allah. And if they stand in our way, then we wage Jihad for the sake of Allah."

13) Saif Ashmawy, a non-violent Muslim, who publishes "Voice of Peace" an Arabic newspaper, stated:

"Now they have worse than Ayatullah Khomeini after the WTC."

14) The Jihad movement in the U.S.A. has attracted Islamic followers "willing to put words into action," such as the convicted conspirators in the 1993 World Trade Center bombers. Mach Mudd and Mohammad Alu-Alima ( charged four years later as conspirators in the WTC bombing) were seen at a 1989 Brooklyn Jihad rally.

15) Siddiq Ali (Sudanese) recruited followers in N.J. in 1992, months before the 1993 WTC bombing. He is accused of being an architect of Sheik Omar Abdul Rahman's campaign of terror.

"The sword is to be absolutely used and implemented. This is as a principle." [Siddiq Ali]

16) Clement Rodney Hampton-El, (who allegedly helped plan the killing of Rabbi Meir Kahane) spoke in 1988 in NY:

"Jihad is something that has to be implemented. Jihad is not a thing
we speak of. It is a thing we do."

17) Nosair (the alledged killer of Kahane) met with World Trade Center bombing conspirators while in prison, helping plan the bombing and continually pushed for the movement to move forward, to take strident action.

The plan (1993 World Trade Center bombing) didn't shift into high gear until the arrival in the US of Akman Ajjaj and Ramzi Yousef five months before the bombing. Akman Ajjaj was imprisoned for having false passports. He had in his possession a vast collection of bomb making instructions and videos. His partner Ramzi Yousef managed to enter the country and built the bomb in a New Jersey safe house. He spoke regularly with Ajjaj in prison. Ramzi Yousef escaped hours after the WTC blast and was later extradited from Pakistan and is now in prison in the US.

18 ) In the summer of 1993, Sheik Omar Abdul Rahman and 14 followers were indicted for the bombing of the WTC, and accused for plotting bombings of the Lincoln and Holland tunnels and the United Nations building and also planning the assassinations of prominent Americans. Later, in April 1994 in the first of a series of trials, four followers of Sheik Rahman, Mohammad Salima, Makhmud Abu Halima, Niyow Ayad and Akhman Ajjaj were sentenced to 240 years each.

19) But they are not alone. They are only one of several radical groups who have set up networks throughout the United States to support international terrorism. This networks include two of the most notorious terrorist organizations in the world.

As Oliver B. Revell, former F.B.I. official stated, "The Hisbollah and the Hamas are very active in the United States."

Oliver B. Revell further stated that these groups have carried out military training, firearms practice, construction of explosive devices and are putting together arsenals, all within the U.S.A.!!!

20) Sheik Abdul Wali Zindani of Brooklyns Al-Kifah Refugee Center, denies involvement in terrorist bombings and assassinations attributed to his center. He was however revealed by his words at a Brooklyn gathering as a leading Islamic holy warrior,

"Allah, the most high and exaulted, ordered us to kill the idol worshippers, the enemies of Allah... Fight the idol worshippers wherever you find them. Pursue them and finish them off."

21) Located in the suburb of Dallas, Richardson Texas is Hamas' principal U.S. support group, the Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP), which publishes Hamas books and leaflets, found in scores of branches in the U.S.A.

22) Editor Mohammad Al-Hassam of the Muslim World Monitor, published by IAP, also publishes directives urging Muslims to die in the holy war against Jews, calling them "enemies of humanity, "the blood suckers," and "killers of the prophets." The IAP regularly publishes anti-semitic literature, labeling them "America's Greatest Enemy, the Jew."

23) Aqsa Vision (an IAP group) produces informational videos and has produced a Hamas video, where credit is taken for executions, torture and terrorist operations in Palestine.

24) Research by Steven Emerson has uncovered more than thirty tax-exempt groups in the U.S.A. which fund radical Islamic activities.

"They are collecting money not for humanitarian aspects, but munitions, weapons and military capabilities... If you listen to what they are really saying, this is not just aimed at the Israelis... Their goals are completely and totally to eradicate any opposition to Hamas and Islam and to move against the U.S. ultimately." [Oliver B. Revell, former F.B.I. official]

25) A 1989 early Islamic Radical Conference in Kansas City, Missouri was attended by some of the most radical and influential terrorists:

Sheik Mohammad Shiyam (leader of Hamas from Palestine)
Abdullah Amas (leader of the Algerian Islamic Front)
Rashid Danushi (head of the Radical Tunisian Fundamentalist Group called Al-Mada)
Tofi Kustaffa (a leader of the Muslim Liberation Party based in Jordan)
Mussafa Kadowi (a Militant Muslim leader, originally from Egypt)

It was a secret meeting to expand Jihad networks and terrorist operations.

26) Freedom of speech and religion allows terrorist organizations to function and organize themselves freely.

"It poses a real threat to us that they can come to full potential. We really don't know their capabilities and intentions until we actually see them in action." [Oliver B. Revell, FBI]

27) Dozens of conferences have been documented in the USA where militant leaders from around the world have praised acts of terrorism, urging their followers to wage Jihad,

"If you take the kind of speeches that Sheik Rahman was giving before the attack in the WTC bombing, it is sort of the equivalent of yelling fire in a crowded movie theatre. Words have consequences. And when you go every Friday to the mosque and give this kind of stem-winding, blood curdling speech, at some point you have to be responsible for the consequences."
[Paul Bremer, a former State Department official]

28 ) "In the hour of judgement the Muslims will fight the Jews and kill them." [Yousef Al-Qaradhwi]

29) "We ought to listen to what they say and what they intend to do. It is their own words, their own actions, and their own deeds that are the key to our understanding of their intentions." [Oliver B. Revell, FBI]

30) "We want the small Muslim community to server as a dagger in the center of this civilization." (Sami Dhafar of the Islamic Charity Project International.)

31) "And their intentions are to harm the United States in very significant ways and to reduce their ability to oppose their international agenda." [Oliver B. Revell, FBI]

32) Kamal Hillbawi of the Muslim Brotherhood (in 1990 Kansas City) stated: "Open the borders of Jordon to the Muslim youth so they may confront the Jews and the Americans at once."

33) At a 1993 New Jersey Hamas rally of IAP they festively sang songs with such lyrics, translated, as "We solve our problems with the Kalashnikov (a Russian semi-automatic rifle)" and "We buy paradise with the blood of the Jews."

34) Literature preaching hatred and intolerance is increasingly found in Islamic bookstores throughout the United States, demonizing Judiasm and attacking Christianity.

35) Islamic summer camps encourage youth to embrace radical ideals, a culture of violence for armed struggle and terrorism.

36) Sheik Mohammad Al-Asi of the Islamic Education Center in Potomic Maryland, claims that the U.S. government is "under a Zionist cloud" and urged to "strike against American interests there." He routinely calls for the destruction of Israel, Egypt and any regime allied with the United States.

Sheik Al-Asi spoke at a conference sponsored by the Islamic Committee for Palestine (ICP) based in Tampa Florida and which is labeled a charitable organization, yet is supports the terrorist group Islamic Jihad, which is responsible for some of the bloodiest terrorist acts of the last ten years.

37) Sami Al-Arian, Professor of Engineering at the University of South Florida in Tampa, hosts the cable TV show "Peace Be Upon You" and is president of the ICP.

According to law enforcement officials, ICP is the primary support group in the U.S.A. for Islamic Jihad, promoting Islamic Jihad in the U.S.A. and the middle east. Islamic Jihad's agenda is to establish a fundamental Islamic state upon Israel, destroying Israel.

38 ) Dr. Al-Arian denies terrorist links, yet has written in a speech published by the ICP,

"We assemble today to ... pay respects to the march of the martyrs... and to the river of blood that gushes forth and does not extinguish, from butchery to butchery, and from martyrdom to martyrdom, from Jihad to Jihad."

39) A frequent visitor and contributor at the Masjid Al-Qassam is Sheik Al-Asis Uda (spiritual leader of Islamic Jihad and uninvited co-conspiritor of the WTC bombing). At an ICP sponsored Islamic speech in Chicago's McCormick Center Hotel in 1990, Uda spoke:

"Now Allah is bringing the Jews back to Palestine in large groups from all over the world to their big graveyard, where the promise will be realized upon them, and what was destined will be carried out."

40) Paul Bremer, a former State Department official, stated that Uda's frequent trips in and out of the U.S.A. indicate that immigration procedures dealing with terrorists are lax and shocking,

"What it means in effect is that it is easier to come to the U.S. as a terrorist than as a refugee."
They get in through groups such as the non-profit organization Islamic Charity Project International (ICPI), which brings radical extremists into the U.S. Law enforcement officials say ICPI money goes to Jihad activities.

41) At an ICPI conference, Ahmad Nofal spoke of the killing of Rabbi Kahane and the bus hijacking and destruction in Israel. Who is behind it? These lessons speak for themselves. Sheik Nofal is a known recruiter of Hamas terrorists.

42) ICPI's most prominent member is Sheik Omar Abdul Rahman.

"Sheik Rahman is the leader, is the organizer, is the impetus for the foot soldiers to strike at America as the Great Satan, and to damage America, to try and unnerve America, and sap the will of America by terrorist attacks." [Michael Cherkasky, Manhattan D.A. ]

43)
"If you listen to what they are saying. Israel, Egypt and Jordon are surrogates for the United States. That they are puppets and we are the puppeteer, and the way to strike at [them] is thru the United States, because without the U.S. they could not exist. We are the ultimate. We are the Great Satan, that is their primary and ultimate target." [Oliver Revell, FBI]

44) As the activities of Muslim radicals expand in the United States, future attacks seem inevitable. Combating these groups within the boundaries of the constitution will be the greatest challenge to law enforcement since organized crime.

45) They believe that all the westerners are the enemies of Islam and that all the Christian and Jewish groups are enemies of Islam.

46)
"Democracy means something different to them. Hitler came to power in a democratic means. Moussolini came to power in a democratic means. Those people are using democracy just to reach power. Once they have the power, there will be no democracy. I heard it over and over and over from many of them. They are saying there is no democracy in Islam." [Seif Aswami, moderate Muslim]
US Constitution

47) "The very freedoms that allow them to function and operate are what they despise and it is a paradox that we have not come to grips with it as a nation." [Oliver B. Revell, FBI]

48 ) Though some militant organizations may portray themselves as moderates, it is in fact that it is moderate Muslims who are most threatened. The militant's agenda demands confrontation with any group that disagrees with their radical vision. Although the militants claim to speak on behalf of all Muslims, Islam as a religion does not condone violence. The radicals represent only themselves, an extremist and violent fringe.
 
Interesting info you have there Sabastian.
Heres some I think you'll find these very interesting too.

Regarding Saddam and Terrorists-

Abu Nidal murder trail leads directly to Iraqi regime
http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/jwit/jwit020823_1_n.shtml

The Iraqi connection
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/archive/article/0,,4296646,00.html

Middle-Eastern States Supporting Terrorism - IRAQ
http://www.teror.gen.tr/english/middleeast/states/iraq.html

Abu Nidal 'suicide' mystery deepens
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...FWAVCBQWIV0?xml=/news/2002/08/21/wnidal21.xml

Saddam killed Abu Nidal over al-Qa'eda row
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/08/25/wnidal25.xml

PBS Frontline - Interview with Laurie Mylroie
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/interviews/mylroie.html

THE WORLD TRADE CENTER BOMB:
Who is Ramzi Yousef? And Why It Matters

(this ties in with a lot of what you posted above)
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/iraq/956-tni.htm


Regarding terrorism in general:

Muslim Brotherhood
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/mb.htm

Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Muslim Brotherhood
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/adl/hamas/introduction.html

TERRORISM
http://www.teror.gen.tr/english/index.html

Encyclopaedia of the Orient: The only encyclopaedia for Africa and the Middle East
http://i-cias.com/e.o/index.htm

Regarding Sayyid Qutb and Al Qaeda-

Is this the man who inspired Bin Laden?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,584478,00.html

SAYYID QUTB AND HIS INFLUENCE
Interview with Professor Ibrahim Abu-Rabi

http://www.religioscope.com/info/dossiers/textislamism/qutb_aburabi.htm

Sayyid Qutb
Profile and Biography

http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/islam/blfaq_islam_qutb.htm

Sayyid Qutb's Vision
http://www.indyflicks.com/danielle/papers/paper15.htm


Don't get me started on protecters and their organizations :devilish:
 
Thanks for that list Silent one. There really is an abundance of evidance to suggest that the Islamic Jihad movement has set back Middle East - Western relations.
 
Sabastian said:
Thanks for that list Silent one. There really is an abundance of evidance to suggest that the Islamic Jihad movement has set back Middle East - Western relations.


Don't be silly. We all know that "Cowboy Bush" is to blame for any "relations" degredation of any kind. :rolleyes:
 
Joe DeFuria said:
Sabastian said:
Thanks for that list Silent one. There really is an abundance of evidance to suggest that the Islamic Jihad movement has set back Middle East - Western relations.


Don't be silly. We all know that "Cowboy Bush" is to blame for any "relations" degredation of any kind. :rolleyes:

LOL, I hear someone say something similiar last night. My response was "that cowboy is most definitely acting in Americas best interest, like it or not.". lol, Bush ought to star in a cowboy movie or something seems he makes a good one. hehe. Bushes actions are not degrading relations the dedradation was always there and latent IMO only when the US stands up to do something important do the knives come out.
 
Well, he's lied about everything else so far. (Saying yesterday that the US was not within 100 miles of Baghdad, etc.) We can only hope this is either just another lie/bluff, or they lack the means to carry it out...
 
Joe DeFuria said:
Well, he's lied about everything else so far. (Saying yesterday that the US was not within 100 miles of Baghdad, etc.) We can only hope this is either just another lie/bluff, or they lack the means to carry it out...

Yeah no question the information minister is absolutely full of crap. Total denial of any coalition gains in fact he said they were about to have victory over the coalition forces and that they were not even close to Baghdad and it was a total illusion that the coalition was trying to force on the people of Iraq... pathetic. One has to wonder just how many civialians actually believe what he has to say at this point.
 
Joe DeFuria said:
Sabastian said:
Thanks for that list Silent one. There really is an abundance of evidance to suggest that the Islamic Jihad movement has set back Middle East - Western relations.


Don't be silly. We all know that "Cowboy Bush" is to blame for any "relations" degredation of any kind. :rolleyes:
Joe you are wrong! IMHO Bush is only responsible for "some" degradation of international relations, the extension of this degradation has to be evaluated carefully. ;)
 
OK Pascal,

So what is Haugepeace's "solution" to Iraq? This is all that I can garner:

"* We believe the use of the billions of dollars that will be required for carrying out the destruction of Iraq and the $20 billion per year projected for post-war expenditures, would be better allocated to cleaning up the swamp of poverty, disease and illiteracy that gives
rise to despotic rule and terrorism."

In other words: give them money. Is that the solution to "peace"? Just give money to to folks that are under "despotic rule?"

Brilliant plan....
 
pascal said:
Sabastian said:
Lovely, at the top of the page a banner claims that Peace is a human right. lol.
Maybe They should have written that WAR is a human right :LOL:

lol.... It makes sense that to defend oneself from terrorist groups like the Islamic Jihad should be a "right". ;)
 
Joe DeFuria said:
Is that the solution to "peace"? Just give money to to folks that are under "despotic rule?"
Please, dont be simplistic. Off course it is not the idea to give money this way to folks that are under "despotic rule".

Have you ever tried to think in a peacefull solution to the overall situation?
 
pascal said:
Please, dont be simplistic. Off course it is not the idea to give money this way to folks that are under "despotic rule".

Um, pascal, I'M not the one being simplistic. I asked a guestion. What is their solution to the specific problem in Iraq? That blurb is the only thing in a way of a "solution" that I can find in their "official statement" on the conflict.

So I'm asking you, if you could elaborate on their proposed solution to the problem. Because "simplicity" is all I see from them. So please, instead of dodging the question, I request that you address it.

Have you ever tried to think in a peacefull solution to the overall situation?

What "overall situation?"

I'm talking about Iraq.

I'm all for "non-violent" and otherwise diplomatic approaches. Probably many of those approaches would be the same as yours. It's when they have been tried and FAILED, that action can become necessary.

If course, I know that you believe "all non-violent means have not yet been exhausted" in Iraq. We will have to agree to disagree on that.
 
Sabastian said:
lol.... It makes sense that to defend oneself from terrorist groups like the Islamic Jihad should be a "right". ;)
You are right! But are you really defending yourself or making things worse? You cannot combat a idea/concept with weapons, specially this one based on the premisse that western are evil.

IMHO this war is cosmetic and the real one are in the hearts and minds of many people. War is just a effort to keep it under control but not really erradicate it.

Incredible how can we, human beings, design some very advanced technology but dont understand the human mind.

Maybe you should put some very good salesman in some leadership position. IMHO Looks like you have mostlly operations/production people leading key positions.
 
Joe DeFuria said:
What "overall situation?"

I'm talking about Iraq.

I'm all for "non-violent" and otherwise diplomatic approaches. Probably many of those approaches would be the same as yours. It's when they have been tried and FAILED, that action can become necessary.

If course, I know that you believe "all non-violent means have not yet been exhausted" in Iraq. We will have to agree to disagree on that.
And I am talking about Iraq, war on terrorism, etc..

The Iraq war is beyond the return point, just hope it will end fast and with few casualities. Some developments are arguable but I will not discuss it now.

The point is that the idea of war is old. See this one: http://www.time.com/time/community/transcripts/chattr021898.html

What I try to say is that probably no serious work has been done to avoid the war.
 
Pascal,

Again, I respectfully ask how you solve the problems in Iraq. The problems being

1) Continued defiance, lack of complete cooperation, and non-compliance with the UN "peaceful" approaches to disarmament.

2) Opression of Iraqi people.

If you say "no seroius work" has been done to avaoid the war, then you must really think the UN's "diplomatic efforts" for the past 12 years were little more than a complete joke. (So maybe there is hope for you after all. ;))
 
You cannot combat a idea/concept with weapons, specially this one based on the premisse that western are evil.

Well this "concept", this "one" is using weapons against our concept of freedom, our concept of "rights", our concept of Separation of Church and State.

IMHO this war is cosmetic and the real one are in the hearts and minds of many people. War is just a effort to keep it under control but not really erradicate it.

Disagree. If sucessfull this war will change the leadership that promotes this "idea/concept". The eradication of this idea comes after the war, like de-nazification of Germany after WW2. That involved reeducation and rebuilding of that country. You may not eliminate all who believe in the "idea", just like those in Germany who still believe the Holocaust did not happen, but it can work.
 
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