Is why Xbox 360's break already come to light?
- Thread starter Rangers
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Wonder if the glue's included in the price? 
This is not the case, temperature around BGA must be >160 °C if you want solder paste become malleable (if is it lead-free solder paste that temperature must be even higer). Balls of BGA itself is not supposed to reflow during assembly process.
Judging from my experience with production of electronics, there can be problems with contact between solder ball on chip and pad on PCB (maybe uneven distribution of heat during reflow) and then thermal expansivity of PCB with mechanical tension caused by x clamp, can make poor contact. Or maybe is XB360 simply too hot
p.s. sorry for my bad english
Perhaps the pressure and weight from the heatsinks...
Old links that add asoutely nothing to the discussion of what is the cause of such faults. And you didn't bother to explain the links either.
Nice ellipsis there. We're all looking forward to how you continue that sentence with something other than "the edges of the chips are bending off the board".
My thoughts.
I was thinking of how a heavy heatsink I had for an older computer did bend the motherboard slightly inwards around the CPU socket area due to it's weight. Although I noticed the heatsink has a support clip underneath the cpu socket, but wiggling of the console or vibrations could still inflict damage if the clip isn't good enough of a support. Pressure on different parts of the die due to the clip not being firm (or design flaws) and the heavy heatsink could put a strain on the sockets/CPUs solder joints.
So the epoxy would help to put the CPU firm in it's place even if pressure is applied. Just my thought.
I see how that can be the case, but if GPU's use the X Clamp system, then why don't they have the same problem? <- Arguing Rainbow Man's point.
I think it may be due to heatsink design and size.
The left heatsink is for the GPU and the right for the CPU. The CPU heatsinks seems to be made mostly out of copper.
GPU and CPU heatsink.
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w193/NebulasPhotoPocket/therm.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w193/NebulasPhotoPocket/heatpipeHS_small.jpg
If the force is applied evenly over the package, the hundreds (or thousands) of connections share the load and there's no problem with a little mechanical load on the chip. The wide variety of GPU coolers in particular should demonstrate nicely that there is no systemic mechanical problem with this type of chip packaging. It's okay to have heavy coolers and high clamp pressure.
The point of the argument is that the pressure is not applied evenly. This is the only way you can bend a PCB in the first place. And if you look at how the epoxy has been applied, it indeed reinforces specific points on the outside, not all contacts. If the load was spread evenly it would beg the question why the "naked" contacts are not in need of reinforcement while the others are.
It's a nice tangent but I think the real wtf is not the bending, that's just a symptom, but the whole idea with the X clamp. Just a passing glance at the top-side at the pressure point should have made whomever pause. It's okay to rip off stuff that works elsewhere, but the big mechanical difference between this and a graphics card should have been obvious.
The point of the argument is that the pressure is not applied evenly. This is the only way you can bend a PCB in the first place. And if you look at how the epoxy has been applied, it indeed reinforces specific points on the outside, not all contacts. If the load was spread evenly it would beg the question why the "naked" contacts are not in need of reinforcement while the others are.
It's a nice tangent but I think the real wtf is not the bending, that's just a symptom, but the whole idea with the X clamp. Just a passing glance at the top-side at the pressure point should have made whomever pause. It's okay to rip off stuff that works elsewhere, but the big mechanical difference between this and a graphics card should have been obvious.
Can't find the epoxy pics at the moment. but wasn't the distribution symmetrical around the chip? My guess is naked contacts are there for cost savings. Use the minimal amount of glue to do the job!
Hi, I had also the 3 red light problem, but recently I found a great solution in a great site.
Here is the page for the 3 red lights error solution
good luck
Here is the page for the 3 red lights error solution
good luck
Hi guys I got a weird ref light error, there are only 2 red lights on. from Gadgeteer link I found another thread that had some explanation about it but it made me confuse. Is it true that the 2 red lights will become the 3 red lights?
Do I need to exchange my console?
Now my console is ok thanks to the instruction on this page - 2 red lights
But will it last?
Do I need to exchange my console?
Now my console is ok thanks to the instruction on this page - 2 red lights
But will it last?
Depending on the size, the results can be very different.
The principle in application here is the lever. Basically, the force in the middle is directly proportional to the force from the expansion of metal times the ratio of the distances between fulcrum and application point. Here there are a couple of things that can happen. The fulcrum will be near the middle of the chip. This makes the distance between the center of the chip and the fulcrum very small. Hence a small change in distance can have a huge change in the force. Example:
Assume the fulcrum is "effectively" .1 cm from the center of the chip. If the length of the lever is 2 cm, then the ratio is 20 and you multiply that times the force. for 3 cm, the ratio is 30 and you multiply that times the force. The 10 cm increase results in a 2/3rds increase in the force. If the force is something like 10 newtons, you go from 200 to 300 newtons acting on the pcb.
So the smaller GPUs on most graphics cards could contribute to a lot of this. I saw the argument that the deflection for such CPUs would be proportionally smaller to cause this type of damage, but that is assuming that the PCB bends linearly from the pressure point. In reality it will tend to curve with a radius equal to the lever arm length, meaning that longer distances fall away faster than short ones if I've done my math right.
Still, that effect is probably the smallest of possible effects. Different metals and alloys have different expansion properties. The thickness of the heat sinks legs also has an effect on the pressure exerted. The weight of the heat sink itself will work to counter some of this effect. While I can see how a design that is successful on GPUs could suddenly become unsuccessful when you increase the size, I am not convinced that this is indeed the problem.
2 red lights means overheating, if you countinously let it overheat it will kill your system.
Put the 360 in a place thats well ventilated.
If your fans arent working, then just send it in, its going to die anyway
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