Is Linux the best homebrew development environment?

[SPM]

I was just thinking whether Linux as a less graphically intensive dev environment is a better option for homebrew developers than the GameOS dev environment.

Is there any chance of a homebrew game developers actually writing a GameOS game that would be marketable? After all to make any money out of it at all, you would have make it high enough in the charts to be worth stocking or listing. Also to make any competitive game nowadays, you need a multi-million dollar budget. For a homebrew developer, the chances of doing that and the chances of making money out of it are zero.

On the other hand, Linux comes with huge free source code libraries, and Linux games and applications can be distributed independently of Sony, and much more cheaply through Internet download. So although the returns aren't as big, the cost of developing is also very low, and success for a homebrew developer is actually achievable, as in the early days of gaming.

Linux is complicated to use and less polished than Windows, and there will be vast hordes of computer-phobic newbies on the PS3 who won't be able to set up and configure Linux themselves. This presents a money making opportunity. Linux on x86 is a problem because of the need for hardware support which can only be provided effectively by the hardware manufacturers as it is in Windows. However on the PS3 you have a fixed hardware set which is easy to support. There surely is money to be made by selling an easy to use pre-configured Linux distro which requires minimal or zero user configuration based on Internet download and update, customised for someone who can't be bothered with computers, for a subscription charge like Linspire.

Also less cutting edge games, like retro arcade games, mind games like Sims and Internet based social interaction games etc. are within the resource capability of a homebrew developer, as well as non games Linux applications, and Internet services aimed at PS3 users. I think there is a big scope for these, since there will be a lot of people who are not hardcore gamers with access to PS3 - those who bought PS3s as a movie player, desperate housewives, parents of kids with PS3 - the same sort of people who made the DS a success.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

I dont exactly understand what you mean. Do you mean what is the best platform to dev on as a homebrewer in terms of ease of use or in terms of being able to sell what you make?

I dont think linux is a viable platform. If you dev for windows you can chose to mod a game and hope your mod is good enough to be bought. Although that ofcourse is a longshot and probably wont happen. But you could go for steam. I dont know what valve charges for the use of steam but im pretty sure that if you make homebrew game that is decent quality you will be able to make a couple of bucks on it on steam. If you got a bit bigger budget the DS or xbox live arcade might be a option too. Plenty of DS games might as well could be homebrew. You probably wont sell alot but im sure you could make a couple of bucks on it.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

At this precise moment in time, I'd say PS3 linux represents a strong potential for homebrew. There's no competition, unlike Windows where for every homebrew app, there's a dozen competitors. On PS3 you have loads of processing potential to differentiate you from PC based applications. You also have closed hardware so none of the compatibility issues of PCs (though I don't know how Linux add-ons can mess each other about and potentially break software). Also you'll get massive internet game-site coverage if you do anything impressive, so marketting might initially just take care of itself. In that respect I see PS3 as something like the 16 bit machines, where home and individual/small team developers could start something which would become a top-selling application and become the basis of a viable company. If I had the time and where-withall, I'd be developing a PS3 application now!

The downside at the moment is market, because we've no idea how many PS3 owners are going to put on Linux. The development of a PS3 targetted OS to sell to people is certainly an option, but a substantial undertaking. If you could create something that's a doddle to use, you might have a hit, but it's quite a gamble. Otherwise, without any idea of uptake of Linux on PS3 (curse it not being a pack-in!) you've no idea what the market is. Producing a product to sell in the PC space would likely get you more customers, and be a lot easy to develop.

 

[SPM]

I dont exactly understand what you mean. Do you mean what is the best platform to dev on as a homebrewer in terms of ease of use or in terms of being able to sell what you make?

I dont think linux is a viable platform. If you dev for windows you can chose to mod a game and hope your mod is good enough to be bought. Although that ofcourse is a longshot and probably wont happen. But you could go for steam. I dont know what valve charges for the use of steam but im pretty sure that if you make homebrew game that is decent quality you will be able to make a couple of bucks on it on steam. If you got a bit bigger budget the DS or xbox live arcade might be a option too. Plenty of DS games might as well could be homebrew. You probably wont sell alot but im sure you could make a couple of bucks on it.

I am talking about making some money selling homebrew applications and games for PS3 Linux. There is zero chance of doing this on Windows or official console games because there is too much competing commercial stuff. For Linux the server market is huge, and is where the money is. However the Linux ix86 PC desktop market share is small - about the same as Apple OSX, and hardware driver support and installation issues make it difficult for most people to use. On the PS3 however, you have a large user base of identically configured systems - which means it is a viable desktop in terms of ease of installation and driver support, and there is a lack of applications and customisation and Internet services - that a PS3 user who uses the PS3 as a computer might want. There is also a vast range of free libraries and a vast range of open source applications, which with a minimal amount of customisation and packaging, can be sold commercially to those who can't be bothered or aren't able to do it themselves. If there is anywhere where you can make money out of homebrew development, Linux on the PS3 is it.

I think most people who get a PS3 will want to put Linux on it if it is easy enough to use (and it is as easy as booting off the BD drive if the user doesn't have to worry about getting hold of and installing hardware drivers and has a fixed configuration which the user doesn't need to change). After all, why not if you can get the additional functionality out of it by just adding a wireless keyboard, and you have a TV which has the resolution to display the screen content. Even if you already have a computer, it gives you an extra one in the living room.

 

[SPM]

The downside at the moment is market, because we've no idea how many PS3 owners are going to put on Linux. The development of a PS3 targetted OS to sell to people is certainly an option, but a substantial undertaking. If you could create something that's a doddle to use, you might have a hit, but it's quite a gamble. Otherwise, without any idea of uptake of Linux on PS3 (curse it not being a pack-in!) you've no idea what the market is. Producing a product to sell in the PC space would likely get you more customers, and be a lot easy to develop.

The extent of PS3 Linux adoption is the issue. You could of course include your own easy Linux distro at no cost to yourself (apart from the effort involved in mastering of the distro). This won't be a big gamble because you don't need to invest a huge amount of money to distribute Linux.

Producing an easy to use Linux distro basically involves customising and packaging a distribution like Yellow Dog as a hard drive based equivalent of a Knoppix live DVD, adding codecs and configuring and customising it, maybe including some commercial applications not included in Yellow Dog, excluding everything that is not strictly necessary for a newbie, and selling it to PS3 users as an easy to use Linux distro. As for Linux being a pack-in, I am sure Sony's omission will be exploited by some enterprising person. On Linux you also have a lot of open source applications and code that are 98% ready to use, but are not quite there for newbies because the configuration is broken. Fixing this and adding some slick eye candy is the added value that newbies might be prepared will pay say $30 a DVD for instead of downloading Yellow Dog Linux for free.


As for applications, the Windows PC space is expensive to develop for because you need to license commercial development tools and libraries. On Linux it is all free. Also there is too much competition on Windows and GameOS, so unless you are willing to spend a lot of time and money to develop something that is better than what is already there, it isn't going to sell. For this reason, I have more doubts about Windows homebrew, and GameOS homebrew than PS3 Linux homebrew.

 

[SPM]

oops

 

[inefficient]

I don't think there is much if any money to be made here. Linux users are not used to paying for software and some are outright against it. Piracy will make your sales potential even smaller.

It's true YDL is easy enough to install. Probably easier than installing windows on a non-oem PC. There are no drivers or HW compatability to worry about. Once it is installed you can immediately start web browsing or using openoffice apps and even a total newbie can feel quite comfortable... until you need to do something simple like change your display resolution.

Once you have to do something not supported by a GUI interface, a newbie is going to be jerked back into the harsh reality that he is using Linux. Even an experienced Linux user will have to go online to look up the exact procedure. And a newbie will probably see the proceedure and just get scared off.

You could so easily create a little GUI program to manage the video res. It would not take more than a couple man hours developing and testing such a tool. But it is somewhat telling that no one has. Many Linux developer's attitudes is that if you can't do something as routine as manage config files by yourself if vi, you should not be using Linux at all. So these types of issues never get addressed.

Generally the Linux community will only address the type of stuff they are interested in and their own needs. Addressing something like ease of use for newbie users would have to be driven by a commercial vendor like Yellow Dog. Depending on the sales YDL was able to make, maybe YD will see ps3 linux as a revenue stream they will want to grow.

 

[archangelmorph]

As for applications, the Windows PC space is expensive to develop for because you need to license commercial development tools and libraries. On Linux it is all free. Also there is too much competition on Windows and GameOS, so unless you are willing to spend a lot of time and money to develop something that is better than what is already there, it isn't going to sell. For this reason, I have more doubts about Windows homebrew, and GameOS homebrew than PS3 Linux homebrew.

Huh????

No you don't!

Windows is an open platform and there are hundreds if not thousands of free, robust and well-maintained dev tools and libraries which cater for homebrew development.. You only have to look in the direction of things like www.Ogre3d.org, microsoft's xna and the like to see that with a dedicated team of determined individuals, a commercially viable game can easily be developed on a budget of zero..

Also you have great prospects for arcade-style game publishing from companies like Popcap, garagegames and even steam if you title has a bit more "meat" in it..

And if your willing to put down a few hundred dollars to invest in the technology and production pipeline, www.garagegames.com have a great next-gen engine called TGEA which has alot to offer for a very affordable price AND you have the prospects of porting your work onto the Xbox360 at a later date..

 

[Colourless]

Even Microsoft has free dev tools for Windows called Visual Studio Express. All the SDKs for Windows are free too. Sure you can buy things if you want, but you can get by very well using free and Open Source programs in Windows to do software development. You can always stay away from Microsoft too when you dev in Windows. You can use GCC with Mingw, SDL and OpenGL. If you do that you can even make platform portable programs in Windows that you can recompile for Linux too.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

As for applications, the Windows PC space is expensive to develop for because you need to license commercial development tools and libraries.

As others have noted, before you compre PS3 homebrew to Windows homebrew, you ought to get up to scratch with what Windows homebrew is really like!

I've a friend who a few years ago wrote a silly, naff flash game. He ws approached by an online games company to use it, and made something like £18,000 in one year, for no effort. There are masses of titles produced with cheap tools as well as expensive ones. Things like Blitz Basic (or plus) and Dark Basic are capable of producing full commercial applications, depending on what you're trying to do. You have 3D engines and free physics libs. You have free C++ creation and expensive C++ creation. Investment in developing in the Windows space is extremely flexible. In contrast, for PS3 you'll need code C++ skills and an ability to work with the SPEs, for a market that might not be there. As Ineffecient points out, Linux is very much associated with free applications. When you start getting Joe Public running it and buying apps like they do for Windows, there'll be a market. But early on when it's only geeks, sales look slim.

The best bet for PS3 Linux IMO is for someone to invest in creating a proper platform with proper applications to attract customers. Sell people Linux and they won't care. Sell them a super-dooper fast photo manipulation program, video effects program, and music editor, along with a useful set of simple but effective and bug-free productivity apps, and you'll having a product that'll grow the user base. As it is, PS3 Linux remains just a lot of potential IMO. It'd be nice if it went somewhere, but it may well remain niche and for hobby interest only rather than a commercially viable platform.