Interview with MS's Peter Moore

[Sonic]

So we can assume it's a tradeoff? If it's a cute console that is grayish in color it will be popular with women. If it's black and sleek it will be more popular with men and it will also sell better than the cute and gray machine due to it appealling to more men. If it's big, black, and green and really doesn't fit into any sort of scheme for a living/entertainment room then it won't sell nearly as well as the "black and sleek machine" or the cute and grayish machine."

Really, some studies are absurd. Sony is doing very well with the PS2 and it is selling better still than the PSX (Playstation, PS1) did at this point in its life.

I honestly think it's time to have different configurations for consoles. Keep the same technology (guts, insides) and have different colors and even a layout for the case. That way it could appeal to a wide range of people and would allow a very nice selling point. If a console manufacturer did this and trained industry personnel on this then it could sell pretty well. Let's consider the options. You have a design for the standard entertainment room. A black machine that doesn't stand out and blends in with all the other components such as the DVD player, receiver, VCR, cable box, and so on. You could have one for the kids, it could be cute and have a specific color or even be multicolored; plus it could be in a shape that fits easily into a kid's room. You could have one for other things but I fail to come up with others right now.

I hope this isn't too far off topic either, I'm just trying to comment on the statement about the color black being a big nono. I'm trying to think of ways around this and it's obvious there are ways given if the sales people are trained. I think it could work, it did for Nintendo and the GBA and SP.

 

[marconelly!]

Actually what moore said was correct. Sony found that less women bought the PS2 compared to the playstation 1. Apparently the black appearence of the console intimidated women. The original playstaion was extremly popular with women compared to now. It all had to do with the shape and color of the console.

That quite possibly runs for the most far fetched deduction of the day.
'Women' do not exclusively equal 'casual gamers'. PS2 always was and still is selling faster that PS1 did for the same timeframe, and unless the amount of the hardcore gamers has increased drastically, it's obvious that adoption of PS2 among casual gamers has increased compared to PS1.

Arguing that PS2 does not have a great (and better than PS1) adoption rate among casuals... good luck with that. Arguing that Xbox has lower adoption rate among casuals because it's the same color as PS2...

...

I'll just say that there are *many* things wrong with Xbox's case design, but being black is not one of them. It's crazy to read that one such important person as Moore can't even see that after all these years. Perhaps he lives in some dream-world where the Dreamcast, which was not black, was crazily popular among casual gamers.

I honestly think it's time to have different configurations for consoles. Keep the same technology (guts, insides) and have different colors and even a layout for the case.

Everyone is doing that already. There is black/purple/platinum cube, PS2 probably has at least ten different limited edition colored cases, Xbox has several limited colored releases as well (white, green)

Btw, I think your description of the difference in appeal of PS2 and PS1, and distribution of that appeal, is pretty much on the money.

 

[Ug Lee]

What Peter Moore has said in that interview is absurd. Laughable. Short sighted. However you want to put it.

Most of that stuff just made me go

 

[wazoo]

Actually what moore said was correct. Sony found that less women bought the PS2 compared to the playstation 1. Apparently the black appearence of the console intimidated women. The original playstaion was extremly popular with women compared to now. It all had to do with the shape and color of the console.

This is true that women did not adopt the ps2 the way they adopted the ps1, something that it reflected in sales of games like Parappa 2, a favorite among girls last gen, a big flop this gen.

It could be related simply to the fact that girls tried video games last gen and get bored after that, looked at the ps2, did not find anything new and worthwhile, just more of the same.

 

[Vince]

It could be related simply to the fact that girls tried video games last gen and get bored after that, looked at the ps2, did not find anything new and worthwhile, just more of the same.

Whatever. <--- Click it

 

[Evil_Cloud]

It could be related simply to the fact that girls tried video games last gen and get bored after that, looked at the ps2, did not find anything new and worthwhile, just more of the same.

And what about the dance mat craze, Eye Toy,... Don't think so.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

I agree with most of what he said, but it's not suprising that Xbox lovers agree with him and Xbox haters don't.

I think it's very possible that MS and Nintendo will both use similar architectures and XNA, and MS will make a deal with Nintendo so that they stay in their niche of kiddy games and handhelds for the most part. They might even allow certain games on Xbox 2 like Metroid and MS might allows some Rare games like Banjo to go on N5 as well. It's possible anyway...

As for the color of the console: He has the marketing data. We don't. Won't suprise me if the PSTwo is not black though, considering the target audience.

Peter Moore did a great job of launching the DC into a hostile anti-Sega marketplace against a huge impending PS2 juggernaut. The DC still sold 6.5 million units in the North America and he did a pretty good job with it. He was wrong to back Space Channel 5 and Jet Set Radio so heavily, but it wasn't his fault that Shenmue and Skies of Arcadia didn't live up to consumer expectations and that Sega's Japanese teams just never came up with anything really hip to sell the system.

 

[wazoo]

I thought Bernie Stolar was behind the DC launch

 

[cthellis42]

I agree with most of what he said, but it's not suprising that Xbox lovers agree with him and Xbox haters don't.

So "Xbox lovers" agree that the color black makes a lot of difference? That's pretty much been the most contentious point so far.

As for the color of the console: He has the marketing data. We don't. Won't suprise me if the PSTwo is not black though, considering the target audience.

No, it probably won't be. Emphasis tends to be in "smaller" and "cuter" for the redesigned systems, rather than a hard-edged style. I'd still expect it to be stylish, though, but since the omnipresent color already IS black... They'll try to take advantage of another. (Or more than one other. PSTwo would be a good place to experiment with different color schemes or designs in markets other than Japan.)

 

[marconelly!]

As for the color of the console: He has the marketing data. We don't.

Yes we do have marketing data. Sales charts speak volumes, and are much more relevant than his empty rhetorics.

The saddest thing in his whole speach, though, that I didn't see addressed here, was his debasing talk about backwards compatibility and all that it implied. I'm not going to paraphrase what other people said on GA forum, I'd rather post their actual quotes, because they said it better than I could:

No matter what your thoughts are on Microsoft and the Xbox, you can't deny the stupidity that Moore is preaching here. The fact that he trivializes the current Xbox game library is insulting, both to gamers and developers. For the sake of the industry, I just hope Microsoft's executives don't actually believe what they're saying, and that they're just spinning it because that's their only real option. No one needs people that truly believe this tripe to be major industry players.

Worst part about Moore's comments regarding backwards compatibility, as manager of Microsoft’s global production and marketing of games for the Xbox and the PC, is his callous disregard for the back catalog by marginalizing it as nothing more than a bullet point that makes parents feel better about their purchase. I'm sure developers who have committed to the Xbox thank him for trivializing their accomplishments thus far, and the entertainment that gamers have derived from those accomplishments.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

You guys aren't seeing the big picture. Just because the PS2 sold amazingly well as a black console does not mean that it might not have sold even better in another color. Only someone with the marketing data knows the answer to this. And besides, it's possible that the black color of the PS2 wasn't a huge problem, but that for Xbox it made it harder for MS to differentiate the product. You guys are making a big deal out of nothing with little data to back up your arguments.

As far as backwards compatibility goes - roughly 13% of the world-wide market owns an Xbox. This means that 87% of the gamer population doesn't own any Xbox games. Of the 13% there is certainly some percentage that cares about compatibility, but probably not everyone, myself included. If MS can save money (possibly as much as $30) and do something with that money to broaden the appeal to the 90% of the market that doesn't really care, isn't that a smart move?

$30 per console (hard-drive, NVidia/Intel compatibility) is a lot of money to spend just to satisfy the hard-core contingent that will complain about it and then buy Xbox 2 anyway, despite those complaints. If MS plans to sell 50 million units that's $1.5 billion. That's a lot of AAA titles, marketing dollars, or cheaper price point for the console itself. All compelling reasons to stomach the bad (no BC) and run with the new design.

You can't look at something in isolation.

 

[Qroach]

Yes we do have marketing data. Sales charts speak volumes, and are much more relevant than his empty rhetorics

Sales numbers don't reflect the demographics.

 

[Bohdy]

I think it's very possible that MS and Nintendo will both use similar architectures and XNA, and MS will make a deal with Nintendo so that they stay in their niche of kiddy games and handhelds for the most part. They might even allow certain games on Xbox 2 like Metroid and MS might allows some Rare games like Banjo to go on N5 as well. It's possible anyway...

Dream on! There is more chance of the moon turning into a carrot

 

[Fox5]

You guys aren't seeing the big picture. Just because the PS2 sold amazingly well as a black console does not mean that it might not have sold even better in another color. Only someone with the marketing data knows the answer to this. And besides, it's possible that the black color of the PS2 wasn't a huge problem, but that for Xbox it made it harder for MS to differentiate the product. You guys are making a big deal out of nothing with little data to back up your arguments.

As far as backwards compatibility goes - roughly 13% of the world-wide market owns an Xbox. This means that 87% of the gamer population doesn't own any Xbox games. Of the 13% there is certainly some percentage that cares about compatibility, but probably not everyone, myself included. If MS can save money (possibly as much as $30) and do something with that money to broaden the appeal to the 90% of the market that doesn't really care, isn't that a smart move?

$30 per console (hard-drive, NVidia/Intel compatibility) is a lot of money to spend just to satisfy the hard-core contingent that will complain about it and then buy Xbox 2 anyway, despite those complaints. If MS plans to sell 50 million units that's $1.5 billion. That's a lot of AAA titles, marketing dollars, or cheaper price point for the console itself. All compelling reasons to stomach the bad (no BC) and run with the new design.

You can't look at something in isolation.

Gamecube is available in black and purple, and afaik, the black version is the better selling version.(otherwise why is it so much easier to find, and why is the gameboy player only available in black?)

 

[pcostabel]

As far as backwards compatibility goes - roughly 13% of the world-wide market owns an Xbox. This means that 87% of the gamer population doesn't own any Xbox games.

That's 87% of potential Xbox2 buyers that haven't played Halo and would consider BC a plus. I didn't have a PS1 and I played MGS on my ps2.
No matter how you spin it, BC is a nice feature. It is appealing mostly to people who DO NOT have the old machine. It provides a huge library of cheap titles at launch. Of course, if you already have the previous iteration of the console, BC is not as valuable and only saves you space under your TV.

 

[Evil_Cloud]

As far as backwards compatibility goes - roughly 13% of the world-wide market owns an Xbox. This means that 87% of the gamer population doesn't own any Xbox games.

That's 87% of potential Xbox2 buyers that haven't played Halo and would consider BC a plus. I didn't have a PS1 and I played MGS on my ps2.
No matter how you spin it, BC is a nice feature. It is appealing mostly to people who DO NOT have the old machine. It provides a huge library of cheap titles at launch. Of course, if you already have the previous iteration of the console, BC is not as valuable and only saves you space under your TV.

You need re-releasing of old titles, very cheap, excellent at launch. ^^

 

[marconelly!]

As far as backwards compatibility goes - roughly 13% of the world-wide market owns an Xbox. This means that 87% of the gamer population doesn't own any Xbox games. Of the 13% there is certainly some percentage that cares about compatibility, but probably not everyone, myself included. If MS can save money (possibly as much as $30) and do something with that money to broaden the appeal to the 90% of the market that doesn't really care, isn't that a smart move?

Therein lies the part of the problem. I'd argue that new Xbox 2 gamers would actually benefit more from compatibility than Sony gamers would. Large percentage of market already has, and will have PS2. I don't see PS3 having much bigger market penetration, so those people buying PS3 would already have their old console to play their old library even if there wasn't for the backwards compatibility in PS3.

With Xbox 2, Microsoft probably expects tons of new people coming fresh into the franchise, and all those people would basically be forced to hunt down an old hardware as well as buy the new one - if they, for example, want to start playing Halo from the beggining, and not from Halo 3. That's certainly a big nuisance to all the newcomers.

*edit* ah damn, five minutes too late Pcostabel basically posted the same thing while I was typing this.

Sales numbers don't reflect the demographics.

We know some demographics data as well, at least for PS2/PS1. Sony had that slide at this year's GDC, which had demographics distribution of PS1 and PS2. It is clear as day, though, even without any graphs and charts, that PS2 is crazily popular among casual crowd, black color and all...

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Regarding Cube: Black is obviously better for the mass market than Purple, but Purple wasn't Sony's only other option.

As for Xbox software on Xbox 2: If casual gamers really wanted to play Halo they would go and get an Xbox to play one.

I'm not saying that BC isn't a good feature, but it's not worth the $1.5+ billion it would cost to have it. Everything is a trade off.

At the end of the day if Xbox 2 has must-have software, a good price point, and solid marketing plan, then casual gamers will get it despite it's lack of BC. $1.5 billion gets you a lot of nice games and a good marketing budget.

 

[Qroach]

Sonic, Seriously... There was an article in which someone from sony stated that they did reasearch into why PS2 didn't sell as well to women as the PSone. It mainly came down to appearence. I don't have a link to the article any longer, but reading that really stood out in my mind.

 

[marconelly!]

Sonic, Seriously... There was an article in which someone from sony stated that they did reasearch into why PS2 didn't sell as well to women as the PSone.

I know that, but as I've said, 'Women' do not exclusively equal 'Casual Gamers'. It's obvious that PS2 more than made up that difference with it's bigger apeal to male casual gamers.