Intel Pentium D Processors

[RussSchultz]

Don't take these benchmarks too seriously unless you're into doing a lot of multi-threaded compilation.

 

[Coola]

i can't take them seriously, i have no idea what they mean ;p

 

[epicstruggle]

i can't take them seriously, i have no idea what they mean ;p

Go to hardocp, techreport, anandtech, ... They will have benchmarks closer to what you might more realistically do.

epic

 

[ANova]

I would suggest the 830 as it has speedstep whereas the 820 does not. This will help on heating and power consumption, even if only a little. That and I really wouldn't go lower then 3.0 GHz on the core.

 

[Moloch]

A plain old P4 would be good for multitasking, unless you are like encoding an video and want to do another cpu intensive task, for I think a single P4 will be good enough with it's HT for just multitasking.
As for the X2, it rocks, since it doesn't sacrafise nearly as much single threaded performance, so like in gaming, a P4 D will get spanked by a A64 X2.
But they're more expensive since make alot of them atm.
They also less power, and put out less heat.
http://techreport.com/reviews/2005q2/athlon64-x2/index.x?pg=1
There's a review of the A64 x2,comparing it against a bunch of cpus including the 3.2 pentium d.
One thing though, is that amd has a 2 ghz dual core coming out for under 350 I believe, and that would be a great deal, since low end single a64s don't suffer nearly as much as low end P4s.

 

[Coola]

Yea i'm leaning towards the 3.0ghz, mainly because i have a 2.0ghz celeron.. and i know a pentium d is light years away from a cely but i like to think i'm REALLY upgrading from the 2ghz range to the 3ghz. not just 800mhz.

btw what's HT technology? doesn't AMD have the same thing

 

[ANova]

AMD's HT stands for hypertransport. This is the name they gave to their new interface which replaces the old bus and is used to communicate between the CPU, memory and chipsets.

Intel's HT stands for hyperthreading and is used to simulate two processors through the use of the Pentium 4's long pipeline stages, which in turn helps multitasking in single core environments.

They are two very different things.

 

[RussSchultz]

Yes, but apparently the X2's report that they are hyperthreading capable to apps that ask. (I guess to trick them into spawning new threads when they might not otherwise)

 

[Pete]

(X2 behind the apps' backs: "Heh. Suckers.")

Coola, again, I think $130 would be better spent on a nicer monitor, faster HD, more RAM, etc., etc. Speedstep doesn't seem worth the premium Dell is attaching to it, as it seems to draw as much power as the 820 when idle (and lots more when working). Dell also appears to be charging beyond what Intel does between the 820 and 830, as that TR review shows the 820 at $241 and the 830 at $316.

If you're really concerned about power, just get a 90nm Athlon 64.

BTW, you keep mentioning lots of multitasking, but does that mean plenty of IE windows open, or plenty of constantly computing tasks open? Though everything will appreciate a faster CPU, the former may benefit more from more RAM and a faster HD* than a 200MHz faster CPU.

TR's (link above) and Anand's Pentium D articles should be enough reading material to explain the benefits of dual-core to various multi-tasking situations.

I wouldn't worry about Longhorn. If Dell offers MCE05 as a relatively inexpensive upgrade, I'd take it, just in case you'll add a TV tuner or two later on (to use your PC as a TiVO).

* Specifically, a native SATA model with NCQ is very important for dual-core CPUs. The Dell's standard HD is probably SATA with NCQ, but double-check before you order to be sure. I wouldve recommended a Raptor, as well, but Anand's tests show 7.2k rpm NCQ beating 10k rpm TCQ, so I guess you can stick with a now-commonplace 7200rpm, 8+MB cache, SATA, 160+GB HD. Heck, I'd spring for a duplicate drive and run them both in RAID 1, for extra data protection.

Buy a UPS, too. CompUSA and others often have APC or Belkin units for as little as $10 after (large) rebates.

 

[BRiT]

AMD's HT stands for hypertransport. This is the name they gave to their new interface which replaces the old bus and is used to communicate between the CPU, memory and chipsets.

Intel's HT stands for hyperthreading and is used to simulate two processors through the use of the Pentium 4's long pipeline stages, which in turn helps multitasking in single core environments.

They are two very different things.

Yes they are, but I was saying AMD's X2's report that they are Intel-HT capable. That gives them a boost in Intel-HT-aware programs.

 

[ANova]

Yes they are, but I was saying AMD's X2's report that they are Intel-HT capable. That gives them a boost in Intel-HT-aware programs.

This is probably necessary in order for the application to take advantage of the second core as Russ more or less said.

I was just letting Coola know the differences between the two terminologies that both parties typically advertise, so as not to get confused since all Athlon 64s support HT as they claim, but not Intel-HT.

 

[BRiT]

I was just letting Coola know the differences between the two terminologies that both parties typically advertise, so as not to get confused since all Athlon 64s support HT as they claim, but not Intel-HT.

Gotta love the alphabet soup acronym-laiden areas...

 

[Coola]

really appreciate you guys taking the time to give me some good advice, some that the customer help people at dell or hp wouldn't want to answer.

i can't really go with amd because im not into HP desktops too much and i'm not capable of building a computer for the reasons of having to troubleshoot. So I opted for a strong Intel Pentium processor.

As for the extra money, i already have a monitor im looking to get, which is a widescreen dell monitor, but i will buy that later. Right now i am just buying the tower of the computer along with a new multimedia dell keyboard.

when i refer to multitasking i refer to multiple messenger windows open, multiple website windows open, photoshop running, p2p program running, windows movie maker running, msn explorer running, media player running, microsoft office running at the same time. This scenario of course being the most my computer will be asked to do at one given time. But I want my PC to be able to handle that.

The RAM i aimed for is 1GB which is what this forum suggested, and if 1GB isn't enough I will get more since the dell 9100 has 4 dimm slots.

Another question I want to ask heh, Is the intel pentium D 3.0ghz a 90nm chip? I assume 90nm is the best tech for a chip now.

edit: also im looking at a 160gb hard drive, if i wanted to upgrade that to say a 250gb, how would i transfer files from the 160 to the 250?

160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cacheâ„¢

250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cacheâ„¢ [add $64 or $2/month3]

500GB Serial ATA II Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cacheâ„¢ [add $264 or $8/month3] Dell Recommended

160GB Data Security RAID 1 (2 x 160GB SATA HDDs) [add $96 or $3/month3]

320GB Performance RAID 0 (2 x 160GB SATA HDDs) [add $96 or $3/month3]

 

[wireframe]

The RAM i aimed for is 1GB which is what this forum suggested, and if 1GB isn't enough I will get more since the dell 9100 has 4 dimm slots.

You mentioned Photoshop, FlashMX, and multitasking so I think I should try to move you into a higher bracket here. 1 GB really is miminal when working with "real" applications like PS (you probably know this already). Because you are limited in the physical number of DIMMs you can use at any one time, I would recommend you opt for two 1GB sticks, for a total of 2GB, if possible. 2GB should be a good base and allow you to work with lots of data comfortably without scratching the disk for everything. It will also make it easier to go to 4GB, should you so desire. You will most likely populate 2 out of 4 DIMMs no matter what memory configuration you choose. So, 1GB and half the slots expended will mean you add 2x 1GB later for a total of 3GB or maybe just 2x512MB for 2GB total. The reason I mention this is because of costs. 1GB modules are quite affordable, but after this the price skyrockets (MB/$). Selling DIMMs is not the best option for everyone, so buying smart is the key. DIMMs must be paired (identical) to operate in dual channel mode, so with 2 populated out of 4, you have consumed half your dual channel options unless you start from scratch.

Another question I want to ask heh, Is the intel pentium D 3.0ghz a 90nm chip? I assume 90nm is the best tech for a chip now.

It is 90nm, but this means more to the manufacturer than it should mean to you.

edit: also im looking at a 160gb hard drive, if i wanted to upgrade that to say a 250gb, how would i transfer files from the 160 to the 250?

The drive manufacturers usually supply (with the drive (retail) or as a download (OEM)) a disk mirroring software. This will only work if you use drives from that manufacturer. Otherwise you can use an application like Norton Ghost. There may also be freeware tools that may get the job done on any drive. (I have used the drive manufacturer's tool several times with great success)

 

[Pete]

As wireframe said, don't worry about manufacturing tech. You may worry about power consumption and heat dissipation, but transistor size won't tell you anything about that. For example, the current Athlon 64s and all Pentiums are 90nm, but A64s still draw much less power. It's probably not an issue with a prebuilt system, as Dell will make sure the heat is safely evacuated, and the extra power draw probably won't mean much in terms of energy use (though it may heat up your room a little faster ).

If 1GB RAM sticks are the same price as 512MB, then I can agree with wireframe. I don't think they are, though, as 512MB sticks are as little as $60 for two after rebates at places like NewEgg, and I think Best Buy has a 512MB Kingston stick for around $20 after rebate. IMO, the cheapest way to more memory is to minimize what's included with the Dell (2x256MB) and add 2x512MB yourself, for 1.5GB total over four slots. Even if you're reluctant to add them yourself, it may still be cheaper to pay CUSA or BB or a local shop to add them for you. I'm still with populating the system with 512MB vs. 1GB DIMMs from a price perspective, but wireframe knows better than me how much memory each app requires.

Whoops--I forgot that the P-D uses DDR2. Scratch the above prices. It's still likely cheaper to add your own RAM, but DDR2 currently costs a bit more than DDR.

Here are some pretty good prices on Dell LCDs. Believe it or not, but they've been even cheaper in previous sales.

Yeah, that's a decent multitasking load, but I believe you'll still only be using one app at a time, so I wouldn't sweat the extra 200MHz of the 830. Well, P2P may suck up CPU and HD time, depending on your d/l speed, so you may see a benefit from the dual-core CPU and NCQ HD.

As for the HD, as wf said, most new retail drives come with a HD mirroring tool, so you can just clone the old drive onto the new one. If you just need more space, it'd be easier just to leave the original HD as is and simply use the new one for storage. Again, check with Dell that the HD they include has NCQ (Native Command Queueing) support--it's vey beneficial to multitasking performance, according to Anand's tests.

 

[Coola]

i think the 2GB idea is a good one, it makes sense because if i opt for 1GB i think they will just give me two 512MB ram chips.. lord knows why

for the HD - how do i transfer all my old data to the old one? When i take the old one out and put the new one in, how does that work?

mirroring tool software, does that save the data on some network for me to re-download after i install the new hd?

the monitor i will be *trying* to get (damn its expensive) is this http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...8&first=true&page=productlisting.aspx

i think it's nice for watching movies and my crt takes up a boat load of space right now.

 

[wireframe]

for the HD - how do i transfer all my old data to the old one? When i take the old one out and put the new one in, how does that work?

mirroring tool software, does that save the data on some network for me to re-download after i install the new hd?

It's a bootable floppy diskette that only performs drive tests and data transfer (may be available for CD and USB memory device). You boot from it and it will allow you to duplicate the drive. It will even allow different partition sizes as long as all new partitions can hold the old data (ie, no shrinking and moving data from one partition to another).

You plug both drives in, the tool detects, allows you to format the new one, partition it, and then pulls the data from the old to the new. You then remove the old drive, plug the new drive into the interface the old one was in (may be important) and then you run it. It's very painless (disclaimer: when it works )

 

[wireframe]

If 1GB RAM sticks are the same price as 512MB, then I can agree with wireframe.

This is not what I meant. I meant that 1GB DIMMs are now at roughly the same $/MB as 512MB ones, or at least affordable. So, 1GB is roughly twice the price of the 512MB stick. However, you will find that a 2GB stick is much more expensive than 2x 1GB (again, the $/MB relationship). So, my argument is that 1GB DIMMs are now very affordable in terms of price/size and will offer you a higher limit without the need to throw away/sell-and-buy new RAM to get significantly higher.

I think 2GB is not over-kill for a "dabble station" at this point. I would not like to think of a proper workstation with less. But that's perhaps just my opinion.

 

[Coola]

for the HD - how do i transfer all my old data to the old one? When i take the old one out and put the new one in, how does that work?

mirroring tool software, does that save the data on some network for me to re-download after i install the new hd?

It's a bootable floppy diskette that only performs drive tests and data transfer (may be available for CD and USB memory device). You boot from it and it will allow you to duplicate the drive. It will even allow different partition sizes as long as all new partitions can hold the old data (ie, no shrinking and moving data from one partition to another).

You plug both drives in, the tool detects, allows you to format the new one, partition it, and then pulls the data from the old to the new. You then remove the old drive, plug the new drive into the interface the old one was in (may be important) and then you run it. It's very painless (disclaimer: when it works )

so this would require 2 hd slots then? not sure if the 9100 has that

and talking to dell chat, the only way to get a 1GB chip is to go with the 4GB option right out of the bat, very disappointing

 

[Pete]

I meant that 1GB DIMMs are now at roughly the same $/MB as 512MB ones, or at least affordable.

Sorry, improper English on my part. I meant to say in line with 512MB prices, as in $/GB.

Yeah, the 2005 is a pretty well-reviewed monitor (see Anandtech, BeHardware, etc.). See my link to get it for about $100 less.