Intel "Coffee Lake" (2017/2018, 14 nm)

Discussion in 'PC Industry' started by iMacmatician, Jul 21, 2016.

  1. itsmydamnation

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    No love for the 1600? unlocked and the Same price as an i5 7600.
     
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  2. Grall

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    Uses exact same socket; drops right in, just refuses to boot up due to UEFI/microcode/whatever lockout.
     
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  3. Kaarlisk

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    I count it at the expensive end. And in any case, 1600 did not make my future PC cheaper. Quad i3 did (though yes, I would like a cheaper motherboard; but unlike Ryzen, the i3 does not need a GPU).
     
  4. xEx

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    If you want that I think would be better to get a ryen APU next year if your not in a hurry.
     
  5. DmitryKo

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    Looks like 8000-series Coffee Lake processors and 300-series chipsets do have a new socket, LGA 1151v2, which re-designates previously reserved pins to VCC (+5V) an VSS (ground), and PROCC_DETECT#/SKTOCC# pin is moved to a new location (AC38 instead of AB35), so new processors and chipsets are not compatible with existing ones based on current LGA 1151.

    http://wccftech.com/intel-coffee-lake-lga-1151-pin-configuration-detailed/

    https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...cessor-family-s-platform-datasheet-vol-1.html
    https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...ktop-6th-gen-core-family-datasheet-vol-1.html

    Coffee Lake LGA 1151v2 vs. Kaby Lake LGA 1151

    [​IMG]

    imgur.com/a/Af8DI
     
    #45 DmitryKo, Oct 4, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
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  6. xEx

    xEx
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    Then they should just change the socket and/or just tell the difference since the beginning and avoid the "confusion"
     
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  7. DmitryKo

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    Intel won't make a new socket - they already made a new incompatible revision. As for 'confusion', Intel already did this with LGA 2011 socket, which had three different incompatible revisions during the course of production, and nobody cared. It's just:

    1) repurposing some of the pins is simpler than changing the mechanicals and introducing a new socket - and cheaper for Intel and its OEMs;
    2) the PC market is shrinking and very few people end up buying a desktop PC - most new users buy notebooks or Android/Apple tablets, none of which are CPU upgradeable;
    3) of those who still buy traditional desktops, very few ended up upgrading their CPU or GPU - mostly because mid-range products practically stalled for the last 7 years.
     
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  8. entity279

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    Of course. And such practices contribute to them being very few.
     
  9. DmitryKo

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    AMD did keep their CPU sockets for like 10 years, and their market share was still eaten by Intel - until they dramatically improved their performance with Ryzen, and replaced their sockets as well :)


    Case in question. I still use Intel Core i5-2500K, a LGA 1155 part from 2011, because I couldn't make a good reason for replacing it with any recent mid-range CPU.

    I replaced my GPU twice during this time, and each new graphics card offered at least 2x real-world performance gain - though these were high-end cards, HD6950 and R9 290X. To achieve a modest 2x gain on the CPU side in very select workloads, I would need to buy top-end 6- and 8-core LGA 2011 parts - everything else would be essentially the same in real-word performance. I couldn't justify such an upgrade, even without considering the cost of a new motherboard and memory.

    So would it really help if all successive generations of Intel Core processors used the same socket? I don't think so.


    6-core Coffee Lake CPUs look interesting, but they still barely offer a 2x real-world performance gain - I would still need insanely priced top-end 8-core or 10-core i7-X or i9-X series parts to break it, and it would only show in quite a few very specific workloads optimized for many-core processors.

    http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-8700K-vs-Intel-Core-i5-2500K/3937vs619
    http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i9-7900X-vs-Intel-Core-i5-2500K/3936vs619
     
    #49 DmitryKo, Oct 5, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
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  10. entity279

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    I'm left speechless by the collosal strength of this argument



    Anyway, mid-end skylake owners would get quite a bit of value by upgrading to 8700K.

    More than the question of "would anyone actually upgrade ?" , there's the fact that w/ Cofee the socket change was uncalled for and artificial. Intel could have decided to help the consumers , but actively went against them instead (I guess mb vendors stand to benefit)
     
  11. Bondrewd

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    There's basically no availability.
    And I thought RX Vega launch was bad.
     
  12. entity279

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  13. CarstenS

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  14. entity279

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    The fact that some reactions/statements are repeated regularly does not make them wrong, I'm sorry. Or right. So it's irelevant wether I'm playing bingo or not.

    Also I said that that Intel is moving against consumers. That doesn't mean consumers will stop buying Intel ( or that they'll start to..) . It's a strech (pointless, for now I'd say) to jump straight from a socket change to market share trends. Not sure why you did that
     
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  15. DavidGraham

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    It's actually faster than that, gaming and otherwise, 8700K is practically on the heels of Ryzen 7 1800X.

    http://techreport.com/review/32642/intel-core-i7-8700k-cpu-reviewed/16
     
  16. rcf

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    8700K is more interesting than Ryzen 7, but I'm still disappointed as it's roughly just a Skylake CPU with two more cores.
    Intel CPUs have had the same IPC for three "generations" now.
     
  17. pharma

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  18. DmitryKo

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    They assume i7-8700K is 2.5 times faster than i7-2600K, but that's just the bias of their weighting formula.

    It's certainly not that faster "clock-for-clock", i.e. clocked on the same frequency - the last three major generations of Intel processors (i.e. Sandy/Ivy Bridge, Haswell/Broadwell, and Skylake/Kaby Lake/Coffee Lake) have very similar IPC , and real-world performance gains come from increased clocks and cache memory, made possible by process node improvements.

    So performance gain can be roughly estimated using turbo clocks and number of cores: for Core i5-2500K and Core i7-8700K, that would be (4.3*6)/(3.3*4) = 1.9, or 90% faster - assuming workloads that scale very efficiently with many-cores, such as video encoding.
    If you count in HyperThreading in Corei7, that could give you additional 20-30% over Core i5 in ideal conditions.

    So in the end, 8700K would be about 2x (or 100%) faster, but not by a wide margin, in many-core workloads. For single-threaded workloads, it should be about 30% faster (4.7/3.7=1.3).
     
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  19. DmitryKo

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    Because you are overlooking who are really Intel's customers.
    Processor sockets do not exist to provide an easy upgrade path for the end-user - though it could be advertised as such for the enthusiasts. It's rather for the convenience of desktop PC builders, to give them flexibility with custom-built configurations and support/repairs.
    They don't really care for cross-compatibilty between CPU generations, as they can order any part through the OEM channels.

    It's not the quantity of these statements, it's their quality.
     
  20. entity279

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    Okay, (in an attempt) to remove all ambiguity , by customer/consumer I meant end users. So you now say Intel doesn't care about end users, with regards to sockets at least. We're in agreement then; in this instance at least Intel behaved as if it would not care.

    Then the quality was just dismissed by you considering them similar to that bingo thinggie, not addressed.
     
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