If Sega were still in the console business

[Sonic]

This is purely hypothetical of course.

If SEGA were still in the hardware side of the console industry what kind of hardware do you imagine would be powering their current gen system?

I'm not sure of the CPU involved but I would have loved to see what IMG would come up with for the machine. It doesn't even need to be PowerVR but in my fantasy world it would have used one.

 

[obonicus]

I'm sorry, but what sort of question is this? At least give folks a point to start from: would this new machine have to have full backwards compatibility?

 

[function]

Speculating on possible alternate timelines is fun!

It's quite sad. The Sega that made the MS, MD and DC would have been the company best placed to go after the Wii - in places they were already heading in that direction.

They'd streamlined the DC pad because their research had shown that a lot of potential customers found the complex analogue Saturn pad, Playstation pads and N64 pad intimidating; they'd already made simple, fun, motion controlled games that even your gran could enjoy; they'd built online services and user friendly console portals, and they'd designed the DC as a small, fun box rather than an expensive piece of av equipment.

Of course, none of this automatically gets you to where Nintendo are now (and the DC was incredibly powerful for its time so not as cheap to make), but it's a good foundation to build on.

I think their current gen system would have come out in 2003 or 2004, been roughly a third to a half as fast as the 360, used a 130nm PVR chip, unified memory, 128 - 256 MB ram, targeted mostly SD while also supporting higher resolutions (all with with "free" AA), had analogue only output (including VGA again), been small and been affordable. I'm also guessing full B/C with the DC, and an improved partnership with MS (assuming MS hadn't cut them off because of the Xbox) or anyone else they could find.

Right now they'd be building up for a new machine at the end of 2009 or 2010 to get the jump on everyone else (it almost worked for the Dreamcast, it has worked for the 360). I reckon they'd be going with a scaled up Series 5 for this, and be fully B/C with the last machine and probably the DC too - Sega were selling download "virtual console" games for the DC iirc, and I couldn't see them missing a chance to resell their existing catalogue.

The important thing in both these steps would be Img Tech, not just for easy B/C but for achieving the kind of performance per dollar (and increasingly also per Watt) that Sega would have needed to compete.

 

[NERO]

If Sega were still a hardware manufacturer it would imply that they succeeded in the previous cycles, which is hard to revise. Assuming that they somehow survived the last cycle they would have failed today. I'm sure Sega's console would run on unicorn horn and pixie dust.

Their current model is what is helping them survive.

 

[V3]

Well I think they'll just released their arcade hardware for home. That's what they always wanted to do all along since the Saturn. They sort of did with Dreamcast and it was great. So if they were still in making console business I guess their console would be based on their Lindbergh which is what ? Intel + NV combo if I recall right. They probably can go with All AMD now for something cheaper.

 

[obonicus]

Well I think they'll just released their arcade hardware for home. That's what they always wanted to do all along since the Saturn. They sort of did with Dreamcast and it was great. So if they were still in making console business I guess their console would be based on their Lindbergh which is what ? Intel + NV combo if I recall right. They probably can go with All AMD now for something cheaper.

Lindbergh is PC-based.

 

[V3]

Yes but it won't be cheap enough if they just put a PC in console clothing. They need to do some design like the original Xbox, if not it'll be hard for them to bring cost down to $200 and less.

 

[Sonic]

It is a question that many here would provide a plethora of different answers to. If the poster replying would want it to have backwards compatibility then of course that is an option.

If Sega were going to stick to arcade hardware in their console then they would have probably continued their relationship with IMG for both the home and the arcade.

I would think that the GPU would be able to handle 720P resolutions to make it HD proof along with AA which is easy to get from TBDR.

 

[eastmen]

I think they would have aimed for the hardcore niche by designing a home console based on new arcade units .

I'm thinking it would have been released after the ps3. Perhaps early 2007. I think they would have went to AMD for the cpu. Perhaps a phenom . They would have stuck with IMG for the gpu. They would have also stuck in lots of ram . 4-8 gigs.

It would have been priced at the $800 range. The games would be at the $100 range. However it would easily out pace the graphical output of the current gen consoles. The hardware would be profitable per sale for sega.

I don't think it would sell in huge numbers but it would be the neo geo of this generation.

 

[Megadrive1988]

SEGA's 5th game console
Sega was working on the successor to Dreamcast as of 1999 and 2000 but of course it got canceled when Sega made an exit from hardware in 2001.

I think the current generation Sega would've been based around the canceled PowerVR4, a full GPU with on-chip geometry & lighting. Probably 4 pixel pipelines and 2 geometry engines. It would've been released in 2003. For CPU Sega would've gone with either a single core or dual-core chip, hopefully PowerPC based, in the 1 to 1.5 GHz area. RAM would be upto 256 MB total, maybe 128MB+128MB.

The current Sega console would've been much more powerful than Xbox and NAOMI 2, perhaps 20 or more times as powerful as Dreamcast, although not as powerful as Xbox 360. I agree with 1/3 to 1/2 as powerful as 360 as mentioned. Dreamcast 2 would've been capable of 720p and simpler games could've been rendered at that resolution, but most of the games would target SD resolution. The price would be $199 and I think Sega would've made an attempt at motion controls in a conventional-looking game pad. Probably not to the extent of Wii, but certainly better than Sony's Sixaxis. The current Sega would have broadband LAN and WiFi built in, and some faster alternative to a harddrive, and a fast 16x DVD drive to keep loading times much faster than 360/PS3 (given the smaller amount of RAM combined with faster drive).

SEGA's 6th console
Of course Sega would've been working on its next console by no later than 2004, for a 2008-2009 release, using the most powerful implementation of PowerVR5 as possible, which would mean a very powerful Shader Model 5.0+ machine, much more powerful than Xbox 360 and PS3, although probably not as powerful as the current GeForce GTX280 cards, maybe closer to 4850 in power, but because of PowerVR's effieciency, it would be closer to GTX280 in practice. Sega would target full HD 1080p and 60fps unlike 360/PS3 which are geared/optimised towards 720p and 30fps Even with generally higher framerates and resolutions in practice, the new Sega would still be capable of more complex geometry, lighting and shaders than 360/PS3. Yet again at an affordable $199 price. Perhaps a $299 SKU with harddrive, and additional features. The controller would be much more advanced than the motion controller in the current-gen Sega, doing at the very least what the Wii Remote with MotionPlus does, and perhaps even more.

 

[V3]

Do they even have an arcade board plan using GTX280 ? I don't even know what arcade titles Sega has in the pipeline that one can consider cutting edge in graphics tech. I think their most advance arcade titles graphically are the new Sega Rally and VF5R. I can't think of anything else at the moment.

 

[Nano]

I think the GPU tech would have bared many resemblances to the latest PowerVR SGX architecture (DTBR, vertex, pixel, geometry shader tech e.t.c) but with a lot more poly pushing power and higher clock rates. This is in the case that they released a console around 2005/2006. CPU is difficult to really envisage, I can quite easily imagine them going with IBM this time round like others.

As was mentioned before, a lot of factors really depend on their previous success in other console generations. We would also have to consider the DC2 would have 3 other competitors against it.

 

[Boxercide]

I think Sega would have decided to compete in the "casual" space after seeing the Wii. But this is all guess work and speculation on a company that has basically been out of the console making biz for a decade.

 

[Megadrive1988]

SEGA's 4th console
Should not have been Dreamcast, but a console with a PowerPC G3 CPU, 32-48 MB RAM + Lockheed Martin Real3D GPU with 2 or 4 geometry engines/T&L/vertex shaders, 4 or 8 pixel pipes, 2 texture units each. (lower clockspeed with 8 pipelines, higher clock with 4 pipes). Performance of 36M textured polygons with all features on, over 1 gigapixel of fillrate, with its own RAM (96MB), DVD-ROM drive, 56K modem plus broadband. It would've been more powerful than GameCube, and even stronger than Xbox, and obviously far better than PS2. Instead of NAOMI, the arcade version would've been called MODEL 4, but it would've been cheaper to produce and buy than MODEL 3 or MODEL 2. Unlike Dreamcast which launched in 1998/1999, this console would not have launched until 2000/2001, to give room for SEGA's previous console to succeed and earn large profits for Sega, assuming it was successful.

which means...

SEGA's 3rd console
should not have been Saturn as it was but a console with a PowerPC 603 CPU, 4-8 MB RAM + a Lockheed Martin Real3D/100 GPU with a geometry engine, 1 pixel pipe, 1 texture unit, its own RAM (8 MB), 4x CD-ROM drive, 33.6K modem. It would've been 4-5x as powerful as Nintendo 64 and at least twice as powerful as M2. 750,000 polys/50Mpixels. The hardware is far superior to Saturn, yet only requires 3 or 4 chips instead of close to a dozen. MODEL 2 ports are a breeze and can even be upgraded since this console is more powerful. MODEL 3 games can be scaled down to run nicely also, without the massive downgrades that had to be done to MODEL 2 games on Saturn. No upgrades are needed for 3D, and no RAM carts are needed for large 2D games. Launch in 1996 instead of 1994/1995, which also gives Sega time to continue to reap profits from Genesis and to make SegaCD a success, and without any 32X upgrade for Genesis whatsoever.


So then with those consoles like that instead of Saturn and Dreamcast as they were, SEGA's 5th and current console would not be using PowerVR4 or PowerVR at all, but ATI hardware instead, and be somewhat more powerful than Xbox360.

revised SEGA console timeline

1985 - Master System
1989 - Genesis
1991 - SegaCD upgrade/expansion for Genesis
1996 - 3rd-gen Sega (instead of Saturn)
2000/2001 - 4th-gen Sega (instead of Dreamcast)

2005/2006 - 5th-gen Sega (current)

2010/2011 - 6th-gen Sega (next-gen)

 

[obonicus]

Launch in 1996 instead of 1994/1995, which also gives Sega time to continue to reap profits from Genesis and to make SegaCD a success, and without any 32X upgrade for Genesis whatsoever.

Why would waiting a couple more years make the Sega CD into a success? How would you even expect it to compete for two years with the PSOne?

 

[Megadrive1988]

Why would waiting a couple more years make the Sega CD into a success? How would you even expect it to compete for two years with the PSOne?

SegaCD would never compete with PS1. Sega needs to get the most out of its 16-bit generation and make sure the SegaCD isn't the failure it was.

The next-gen Sega console beyond Genesis needs to be fully 3D capable and good at it. The N64 and M2 are targeting 1996 launch, and I think Sega would too. I am assuming Sega would be somewhat caught off gaurd by the PS1 and so would everyone else. 1995 is Sony's year. I don't think Sega could have a LM Real3D console ready in 1995, and certainly not at mass market price of $299 and with plenty of great games. The Sega console of that gen needs to launch with a 3D Sonic, not unlike Sonic Adventure but a generation earlier. As well as great arcade ports and Phantasy Star V within its first year, by 1997, to take on FFVII. For all of 1995 and most of 1996, Sega is working on games for its 64-bit 3D console. Launch games and the 2nd & 3rd wave. This console will have no shortage of games unlike N64 and M2. They've got to look much better than PS1 games as well. For all of those reasons I say the console launches 1996, as 1995 would be impossible to pull all of that off. I'd also assume that Sony ultimately wins that generation for being first to market with a true 3D console. Sega would get 2nd place, Nintendo 64 3rd and 3DO/Matsushita M2 would be 4th.

 

[Sonic]

All right. Let's keep this thread relatively on topic about what a current generation SEGA console would be, not a complete re-imagining of SEGA's systems after the Genesis/Megadrive.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

SEGA's 5th game console
Sega was working on the successor to Dreamcast as of 1999 and 2000 but of course it got canceled when Sega made an exit from hardware in 2001.

I think the current generation Sega would've been based around the canceled PowerVR4, a full GPU with on-chip geometry & lighting. Probably 4 pixel pipelines and 2 geometry engines. It would've been released in 2003. For CPU Sega would've gone with either a single core or dual-core chip, hopefully PowerPC based, in the 1 to 1.5 GHz area. RAM would be upto 256 MB total, maybe 128MB+128MB.

The current Sega console would've been much more powerful than Xbox and NAOMI 2, perhaps 20 or more times as powerful as Dreamcast, although not as powerful as Xbox 360. I agree with 1/3 to 1/2 as powerful as 360 as mentioned. Dreamcast 2 would've been capable of 720p and simpler games could've been rendered at that resolution, but most of the games would target SD resolution. The price would be $199 and I think Sega would've made an attempt at motion controls in a conventional-looking game pad. Probably not to the extent of Wii, but certainly better than Sony's Sixaxis. The current Sega would have broadband LAN and WiFi built in, and some faster alternative to a harddrive, and a fast 16x DVD drive to keep loading times much faster than 360/PS3 (given the smaller amount of RAM combined with faster drive).

SEGA's 6th console
Of course Sega would've been working on its next console by no later than 2004, for a 2008-2009 release, using the most powerful implementation of PowerVR5 as possible, which would mean a very powerful Shader Model 5.0+ machine, much more powerful than Xbox 360 and PS3, although probably not as powerful as the current GeForce GTX280 cards, maybe closer to 4850 in power, but because of PowerVR's effieciency, it would be closer to GTX280 in practice. Sega would target full HD 1080p and 60fps unlike 360/PS3 which are geared/optimised towards 720p and 30fps Even with generally higher framerates and resolutions in practice, the new Sega would still be capable of more complex geometry, lighting and shaders than 360/PS3. Yet again at an affordable $199 price. Perhaps a $299 SKU with harddrive, and additional features. The controller would be much more advanced than the motion controller in the current-gen Sega, doing at the very least what the Wii Remote with MotionPlus does, and perhaps even more.

I dont know anything about powervr so maybe this is a stupid question. Bit if these guys can build high end hardware and keep the price low, than why arnt ms, sony and nintendo buying their products?

 

[Megadrive1988]

Good question. Maybe because PowerVR have not proved themselves in the desktop market for a decade now. I guess providing quality mobile 3D graphics doesn't count with Microsoft Nintendo or Sony.

 

[V3]

Sega would have keep using PowerVR for their arcade board if IMG could provide them with competitive part. I think IMG went with mobile strategy, pretty much left Sega with nothing but going with NV for their arcade board.