Heroes of the Storm [PC]
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I've played both and found them frustrating to play. I don't mind complex games (I play lots of sims) but there's room for simpler takes on genres also. You might aswell be a racing sim fan getting angry that need for speed doesn't have an accurate tyre model.
What's the point in having another MOBA that appeals to exactly the same audience? DOTA is already a much better game than LOL imo and that market is probably full.
Lots of gamers find that last hit mechanics aren't fun. HoTS removes that for good effect (for those people). The different maps with various objectives are interesting and fun.
What's the point in having another MOBA that appeals to exactly the same audience? DOTA is already a much better game than LOL imo and that market is probably full.
Lots of gamers find that last hit mechanics aren't fun. HoTS removes that for good effect (for those people). The different maps with various objectives are interesting and fun.
forget the mechanics complexity. basic things are missing such as:
- no visual indicator if you're effected by a buff/debuff
- can't click on skills to inform team of cooldowns or ready state
- no option for additions to chat wheel
- no voice chat. it's 2015!
- reconnect technology feels like it's from the 90's with the waiting for server to catch up and having the AI pick skills for you
- QM should allow hero select screen so you can atleast have a reasonable team composition
these things have nothing to do with complexity etc. these are basic things that make the gameplay whole. In a gameplay based on communication and impact, you need this stuff.
- no visual indicator if you're effected by a buff/debuff
- can't click on skills to inform team of cooldowns or ready state
- no option for additions to chat wheel
- no voice chat. it's 2015!
- reconnect technology feels like it's from the 90's with the waiting for server to catch up and having the AI pick skills for you
- QM should allow hero select screen so you can atleast have a reasonable team composition
these things have nothing to do with complexity etc. these are basic things that make the gameplay whole. In a gameplay based on communication and impact, you need this stuff.
You're right, it is lacking in these areas. They had a debuff indicator but removed it for some bizarre reason. Knowing Blizzard they probably felt it alienated players who didn't know what the icons meant.
It's typical Blizzard though. They make a largely unoriginal game in a trending genre. Made it very accessible and highly polished. Inevitably it lacks some features that the established competition has. Obviously many gamers don't need those features because they play and enjoy it quite happily without them.
I think very competitive gamers sometimes forget that it is the more casual player who is the largest market. They want characterful presentation. Tutorials that aren't boring. Colourful explosions. Varied environments. An easy to understand interface. Shiny graphics and great sound effects. To experience moments of feeling powerful even if you're actually weak.
DOTA and LOL are absolutely punishing for new or low skilled players, and people who don't have much time to devote to the game. Heroes isn't. That's way more important to more people than voice chat or any of the other features you mentioned.
I agree with you that those features would be welcome. I don't agree that it is necessarily 'missing' them or 'needs' them though. Or that the game is a cash grab.
On what do you base that Heroes is a cash grab? I've had hours of fun out of it in the last few weeks and not had to spend a penny. I've got a whole bunch of gold in my account that I could go and buy several new heroes with and I already own 4 of them, 2 of which were the more expensive ones. There are easy to complete quests every day that give gold. Levelling up your account gives you gold. Levelling up your character gives you gold. Killing a goblin at the start of the game gives you gold. I can barely play a match without getting a pop up afterwards saying 'you have completed such and such, here have some $$$'.
If you want skins or some of the more exotic mounts you pay through the nose for them. Fine by me. For those dedicated enough to want their abathur to wear pyjamas they can fork over the 10$.
If by 'cash grab' you meant - making a game in a growing genre that has wide appeal but is short on features found in existing games then I guess I can see your point. I do think the term is a bit unfair and short sighted though.
It's typical Blizzard though. They make a largely unoriginal game in a trending genre. Made it very accessible and highly polished. Inevitably it lacks some features that the established competition has. Obviously many gamers don't need those features because they play and enjoy it quite happily without them.
I think very competitive gamers sometimes forget that it is the more casual player who is the largest market. They want characterful presentation. Tutorials that aren't boring. Colourful explosions. Varied environments. An easy to understand interface. Shiny graphics and great sound effects. To experience moments of feeling powerful even if you're actually weak.
DOTA and LOL are absolutely punishing for new or low skilled players, and people who don't have much time to devote to the game. Heroes isn't. That's way more important to more people than voice chat or any of the other features you mentioned.
I agree with you that those features would be welcome. I don't agree that it is necessarily 'missing' them or 'needs' them though. Or that the game is a cash grab.
On what do you base that Heroes is a cash grab? I've had hours of fun out of it in the last few weeks and not had to spend a penny. I've got a whole bunch of gold in my account that I could go and buy several new heroes with and I already own 4 of them, 2 of which were the more expensive ones. There are easy to complete quests every day that give gold. Levelling up your account gives you gold. Levelling up your character gives you gold. Killing a goblin at the start of the game gives you gold. I can barely play a match without getting a pop up afterwards saying 'you have completed such and such, here have some $$$'.
If you want skins or some of the more exotic mounts you pay through the nose for them. Fine by me. For those dedicated enough to want their abathur to wear pyjamas they can fork over the 10$.
If by 'cash grab' you meant - making a game in a growing genre that has wide appeal but is short on features found in existing games then I guess I can see your point. I do think the term is a bit unfair and short sighted though.
Cash grab as in release heroes that are OP, let people spend money on them and then nerf them as sales comes down and new heroes are close to releasing.
Since you only have 4 heroes you haven't even gone into the league section (you're not allowed until you own 10 and are level 30). These leagues are designed for competitive gameplay with rankings. If they would have allowed the features I stated earlier into just the competitive side, then I'd completely agree with you. It's would make for a nice transition between casual and hardcore. However none of that exists there either. Infact, you're handicapped further by not having the free weekly heroes in league play. I'm sure there's a good explanation for this somewhere also.
You have to pay for skins that you have to grind to unlock. That's impressive.
Most of your points are that the casual gamer is absolutely dumb and doesn't know better so will continue to enjoy what's presented. I disagree. As that casual gamer becomes more seasoned they'll want more interaction with the game. If Blizzard won't offer it, they'll gravitate towards games that will.
As for me, I'm enjoying the bite sized gameplay enough for now until dota 2 reborn becomes the main client and custom games are there for everyone. Then I'll happily reclaim the SSD space.
Since you only have 4 heroes you haven't even gone into the league section (you're not allowed until you own 10 and are level 30). These leagues are designed for competitive gameplay with rankings. If they would have allowed the features I stated earlier into just the competitive side, then I'd completely agree with you. It's would make for a nice transition between casual and hardcore. However none of that exists there either. Infact, you're handicapped further by not having the free weekly heroes in league play. I'm sure there's a good explanation for this somewhere also.
You have to pay for skins that you have to grind to unlock. That's impressive.
Most of your points are that the casual gamer is absolutely dumb and doesn't know better so will continue to enjoy what's presented. I disagree. As that casual gamer becomes more seasoned they'll want more interaction with the game. If Blizzard won't offer it, they'll gravitate towards games that will.
As for me, I'm enjoying the bite sized gameplay enough for now until dota 2 reborn becomes the main client and custom games are there for everyone. Then I'll happily reclaim the SSD space.
No, I don't believe I said that casual players are absolutely dumb. Just that they cared more about other aspects of the game.
So, despite your very negative first post in this thread, it turns out you actually do play and enjoy it at the moment. Turns out it's Heroes night for me and a buddy right now, so glhf and gg.
So, despite your very negative first post in this thread, it turns out you actually do play and enjoy it at the moment. Turns out it's Heroes night for me and a buddy right now, so glhf and gg.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Like LoL or DOTA 2? It's F2P. There has to be a mechanism to encourage people to spend money or the game dies and is taken offline. These companies aren't charities. If they can't make money they can't afford to maintain or further develop the game.
Not that they are stupid, but that they don't care. These are people that might like watching DOTA 2 or LoL, but don't like the toxic atmosphere that can easily infect many games if a person is perceived as not "good enough." Even professional players play the game. Mostly just to relax and have fun.
It provides a quick game that doesn't demand 100% of your attention while playing to still have fun.
And this is coming from someone who owns 12 characters and hasn't spent a single dime on the game. Much like how I haven't spent a single dime on LoL or DOTA 2. I've done ladder play (evens out the skill imbalance relatively well compared to unranked play) a bit and League play as well. Even casual players like to have ranked competitive play from time to time.
I appreciate the things DOTA 2 has. But sometimes I just don't want to deal with all the mechanics like last hitting and denying, creep lane balance, cutting creep waves, stacking camps, warding and de-warding, etc. All great features that I love, but not something I always want to have to do. If I want those I play DOTA 2. I also sometimes don't have time for a game that could last over an hour. Heroes is perfect for that as most matches will last anywhere from 10-20 minutes.
Not everyone has to like it. You obviously don't and that's fine. But plenty of people do and that's fine as well. But calling them stupid just because they don't share your views on what makes an enjoyable game --for them-- is, frankly, a bit offensive.
Regards,
SB
SB, where did I call them stupid? i said blizzard is assuming they're stupid to not introduce better gameplay feedback to the player. As tabs mentioned, I guess at one point they had buff/debuff indicators that they removed from the game.
All the dota things you listed about it's complexities I've never brought up. Re look at the list of things I posted. How are any of those adding dota level complexities? they're simple communication necessities and UI feedback that would enhance gameplay and in no way make the game more complex.
All the dota things you listed about it's complexities I've never brought up. Re look at the list of things I posted. How are any of those adding dota level complexities? they're simple communication necessities and UI feedback that would enhance gameplay and in no way make the game more complex.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
It's more information to process. Heroes is attempting to streamline things to where just playing is the object of the game with as few distractions as possible. As well there aren't significant ways to remove debuffs in the game. So a notification that you have one, while potentially useful, isn't game changing. You'd have the option to run, but depending on the debuff, you're likely going to be dead soon anyway depending on which one it is if your opponent is any good.
I personally like more information, as I'm sure many on this forum does. But it doesn't really affect the play or the gameflow in this game because everything is so simplified. And when most of the debuffs in the game last ~2-4 seconds, is it really that useful? By the time the target audience notices there's an icon, it's likely already in the process of disappearing. Which would then leave them in more confusion than if they didn't have one.
Voice chat is likely left out for the same reason that you cannot chat with the opposing team in game. It's one less level of potential toxicity/harassment that users can engage in. Similar in some ways to how there is zero chat in Hearthstone.
Being able to click a skill to notify teammates of the status of skill cooldowns would certainly be useful. Playing devil's advocate here, I'd imagine that it was left out to simplify the game. And prevent situations where a player is harassed into using it. Yes, not terribly convincing, I'd like to have those as well.
I'm just thankful you "can" rejoin a game in progress if you DC. That's an improvement from the last time I played StarCraft multiplayer (a long time ago).
I'm not sure I understand what you mean about the hero select screen for QM. The point of the system is to allow a person to play whatever they want to play regardless of what their teammates are playing without feeling like they are required to play a certain role because the role they wanted to play is already taken. The system could potentially be better at matching players up for a more balanced team, but in order to reduce the time waiting in queue (it is quick match after all) it'd be difficult for the game to auto-balance class roles.
What you want is in Hero League. Unfortunately, that's locked until you own 10 heroes. This is to make sure that if you are the 10th person to pick a character to play, that you will always have one available to choose. Additionally, this mode features better matchmaking than quick match as it will take more time to fine opposing players of similar ability.
Fortunately, it's relatively easy to get 10 heroes without spending money as you can just buy all the 2000 gold characters and a few of the 4000 gold characters to get to 10. And if you just spend the time to do daily quests (200-800 gold) + leveling up free/bought characters to level 5 (500 gold) and/or 9 (750 gold), you'll get enough gold extremely quickly. Added to that you'll get 6,000 gold in your first 10 player levels (these go by fast) and an additional 10,000 gold if you level the rest of the way to 40 (more of a time investment, but it passes relatively quickly if you like the game). And by then you'll have enough to easily afford more than 10 heroes and unlock all game modes.
After that, however, gold income slows down significantly which is the incentive to get more impatient players to spend real money. I'm patient though, so I don't feel the need to own all characters ASAP.
Regards,
SB
Silent_Buddha
Legend
It's definitely not for everyone. Like I mentioned before. It's basically an introduction to MOBA's in a relatively safe and non-toxic atmosphere. Both DOTA and LoL can be extremely harsh and toxic to new players. Not just in the steep learning curve but the player base itself isn't terribly tolerant of new people learning the game. You still run into it occasionally in Heroes (player hostility), but it's limited to your own team, and doesn't happen nearly as often.
It's also nice for quick, stress free games for more experienced MOBA players.
But definitely not for everyone. It wasn't meant as a DOTA 2 or LoL competitor but as something to entice a different demographic of players. Which is good as it doesn't cannibalize the player base of the existing MOBAs. And gives them a good way to get into them and potentially move on to a more complex MOBA once they get enough of Heroes.
Regards,
SB
It's also nice for quick, stress free games for more experienced MOBA players.
But definitely not for everyone. It wasn't meant as a DOTA 2 or LoL competitor but as something to entice a different demographic of players. Which is good as it doesn't cannibalize the player base of the existing MOBAs. And gives them a good way to get into them and potentially move on to a more complex MOBA once they get enough of Heroes.
Regards,
SB
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