Help me with my upgrade to socket 939 AMD64. please...

[Snoochems]

I've got a X800XT, and i don't think my athlon XP can keep up with. So, i want to look into upgrading soon.

I've got 600 Bucks now, and in the next month I’ll have 800 Bucks. (Thanks to a larger than expected Tax Return and my wife giving 'allowing' me to spend it any way I like )

Anyways, I’ve got my sights set on CPU and Motherboard upgrade.

I've got my sights set on the 939 socket series of AMD64 CPU’s and Motherboard’s. In particular, the 3500+ CPU. As for the motherboard… that’s where I’m a little more stuck.

So, if you can, can you please help me out with these following queries?


1. First up, how are the 3500+ CPU’s (or socket 939 CPU’s in general) differ from the 754 socket CPU’s? What performance difference is there between say, the AMD64 3400+ and AMD64 3500+? ( I believe these two CPU’s are at the same frequency)

2. I’ve also come to believe that the socket 939 supports both the AMD64 and Athlon FX CPU’s? This right?

3. Motherboards and chipsets. What are the competing 939 chipsets involved? And which ones support what features? As in PCI-E, Dual channel, DDR2 etc? And if they’re not available yet, when will they be?

4. With PCI-E, is it possible to have AGP on the same mobo? I just bought a AGP X800 video card, and I can’t see any advantage going PCI-E (yet), and don’t want to as I just bought this video card. If it is possible, which motherboards/chipsets support this? Also, what about normal PCI? (my PCI sound card would be like to be in my new mobo)

5. DDR2. From what I’ve heard, It’s pretty crap (and expensive). Well, at the moment it is anyways. Besides, I have some nice corsair twinx stuff in normal DDR, so I don’t really want to go with DDR2 yet. Should I be slapped across the face, or is my line of thinking right?

6. Features… I would really like to have onboard stuff… such as SATA RAID0, Gigabit LAN, maybe onboard sound if normal PCI is not available on the motherboard, Firewire-b, plenty of USB2.0, and, yeah, you get the drift. Will this kind of stuffbe available on the 939 motherboards ?

7. OVERCLOCKING/MODDING. What cpu/mobo is good for this greatest hobby on earth?

8. Finally, someone asked my today, why don’t I go for the Intel solutions? Well, that’s a good question. Why don’t I? What advantages do the new P4 sockets and CPU’s have against the AMD’s 939 socket?


I would really appreciate your advice.

BTW, in case you want to know, my current set up is…
Athlon XP 2500+ @ 2.31GHz (210 x 11)
Abit NF7-s V2.0
Sapphire X800PRO @ X800xt.
1GB DDR400 corsair twinx PRO RAM (2 2 3 6)
2 x 120GB sata 8Mb cache WD HDD’s in RAID0
etc

 

[DarN]

I may be able to answer some of Your questions.

1. 939 supports dual channel memory.
2. Yes
3. VIA K8T800 Pro, nforce3 250
4. I've seen configurations with AGP/PCI-E combos, and also PCI-E boards with std PCI slots.
5. I think Your thinking is right (for now).
6. Seems most new mobos have all/most of that.
7. Anything by ABIT I guess...
8. If You're a gamer I would recommend AMD.

The above may not be complete/accurate.
Choices are limited now though. A little early I guess...

edit: nr. 1...

 

[fallguy]

1. First up, how are the 3500+ CPU’s (or socket 939 CPU’s in general) differ from the 754 socket CPU’s? What performance difference is there between say, the AMD64 3400+ and AMD64 3500+? ( I believe these two CPU’s are at the same frequency)

They are almost identical as far as performance. You would be hard pressed to tell the difference with the two PC's beside you. I would get the 939 just for upgradability.

2. I’ve also come to believe that the socket 939 supports both the AMD64 and Athlon FX CPU’s? This right?

Yes it is true, and there is no longer a need for expensive registered memory.

3. Motherboards and chipsets. What are the competing 939 chipsets involved? And which ones support what features? As in PCI-E, Dual channel, DDR2 etc? And if they’re not available yet, when will they be?

The biggest competitor is Via, with their K8T800. It features virtually the same as far as features. Neither it nor the NF3 250gb have PCI-E, nor DDR2 as far as I know. And wont for some time.

4. With PCI-E, is it possible to have AGP on the same mobo? I just bought a AGP X800 video card, and I can’t see any advantage going PCI-E (yet), and don’t want to as I just bought this video card. If it is possible, which motherboards/chipsets support this? Also, what about normal PCI? (my PCI sound card would be like to be in my new mobo)

I highly doubt you will see any PCI-E motherboards, with a AGP port as well. At least not any time soon.

5. DDR2. From what I’ve heard, It’s pretty crap (and expensive). Well, at the moment it is anyways. Besides, I have some nice corsair twinx stuff in normal DDR, so I don’t really want to go with DDR2 yet. Should I be slapped across the face, or is my line of thinking right?

There is no motherboard out there that supports DDR2 for AMD's right now. Its expensive and not worth the money for the performance it gets on Intel systems at the moment either. Your ram will work fine in a 939 setup.

6. Features… I would really like to have onboard stuff… such as SATA RAID0, Gigabit LAN, maybe onboard sound if normal PCI is not available on the motherboard, Firewire-b, plenty of USB2.0, and, yeah, you get the drift. Will this kind of stuffbe available on the 939 motherboards ?

Yes, all of the above will be available on 939 motherboards.

7. OVERCLOCKING/MODDING. What cpu/mobo is good for this greatest hobby on earth?

Several are pretty good, my favorite is the MSI K8N Neo2 Platnium. As far as CPU's go, Im not sure. They really havent been out long enough to determine which CPU is the best for overclocking.

8. Finally, someone asked my today, why don’t I go for the Intel solutions? Well, that’s a good question. Why don’t I? What advantages do the new P4 sockets and CPU’s have against the AMD’s 939 socket?

My last setup was a P4, I now have a 3400+. A64's are faster for games, there is no doubt in that. Intel latest offering is pretty underwelming, as far as performance. Personally, I see no reason to go Intel if you are a big gamer. A lot of people say they like P4's for HT, I have not noticed any difference from my 3.0c to this 3400+ on my dekstop while multitasking. But I also have not been running Photoshop while encoding media either.

A very good review of several 939 motherboards can be found here; http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2128

I believe what I have stated above is factual. If there are any errors, someone correct me.

 

[Tim]

I've got a X800XT, and i don't think my athlon XP can keep up with. So, i want to look into upgrading soon.

I've got 600 Bucks now, and in the next month I’ll have 800 Bucks. (Thanks to a larger than expected Tax Return and my wife giving 'allowing' me to spend it any way I like )

Anyways, I’ve got my sights set on CPU and Motherboard upgrade.

I've got my sights set on the 939 socket series of AMD64 CPU’s and Motherboard’s. In particular, the 3500+ CPU. As for the motherboard… that’s where I’m a little more stuck.

So, if you can, can you please help me out with these following queries?


1. First up, how are the 3500+ CPU’s (or socket 939 CPU’s in general) differ from the 754 socket CPU’s? What performance difference is there between say, the AMD64 3400+ and AMD64 3500+? ( I believe these two CPU’s are at the same frequency)

The 3500+(s939) is a 2.2GHz chip with 512KB L2 cache and dual channel memory controller, The 3400+(s754) exist in two versions a 2.2GHz chip with 1MB L2 cache and a 2.4GHz version with a 512KB L2 cache both with a single channel memory controller. The 3500+ is in most cases slighly faster than the 2.2GHz 3400+, but it might actually be slower than the 2.4GHz 3400+.

2. I’ve also come to believe that the socket 939 supports both the AMD64 and Athlon FX CPU’s? This right?

Yes

3. Motherboards and chipsets. What are the competing 939 chipsets involved? And which ones support what features? As in PCI-E, Dual channel, DDR2 etc? And if they’re not available yet, when will they be?

Right now the competing chipsets the nForce3 250 (in different version) and the KT800 Pro. All socket 939 is DDR1 and dual channel, as the memmory controler is on the CPU-die and not chipset the chipset has nothing to o with memory is supported. SIS also has a chipset but few motherboads use it. PCIe chips from both Via and nVidia should be availeble in q4.

4. With PCI-E, is it possible to have AGP on the same mobo? I just bought a AGP X800 video card, and I can’t see any advantage going PCI-E (yet), and don’t want to as I just bought this video card. If it is possible, which motherboards/chipsets support this? Also, what about normal PCI? (my PCI sound card would be like to be in my new mobo)

Via should be releasing a chipset with both PCIe and AGP support, standard PCI will also be availeble on most PCIe motherboards for quite some time.

5. DDR2. From what I’ve heard, It’s pretty crap (and expensive). Well, at the moment it is anyways. Besides, I have some nice corsair twinx stuff in normal DDR, so I don’t really want to go with DDR2 yet. Should I be slapped across the face, or is my line of thinking right?

You will not be able to get A64s with DDR2 before H2 05 anyway.

6. Features… I would really like to have onboard stuff… such as SATA RAID0, Gigabit LAN, maybe onboard sound if normal PCI is not available on the motherboard, Firewire-b, plenty of USB2.0, and, yeah, you get the drift. Will this kind of stuffbe available on the 939 motherboards ?

SATA, RAID0 and 6-8(or10) USB2 ports are pretty much standard today, onboard sound mostly sucks and only and Firewire is a premium feature. The nForce 4 chipset that will be released late this year will have all the features including very good sound and Firewire.

7. OVERCLOCKING/MODDING. What cpu/mobo is good for this greatest hobby on earth?

You need one with a working AGP/PCI-lock, I think all the nForce3 (and later nForce4) s939 motherboards will do fine, the KT800 Pro also supports a AGP/PCI-lock but it does not work with all motherboards. Read the motherboard reviews to find the right one.

8. Finally, someone asked my today, why don’t I go for the Intel solutions? Well, that’s a good question. Why don’t I? What advantages do the new P4 sockets and CPU’s have against the AMD’s 939 socket?

The P4 have an edge in performance when it commes to rendering and encoding and you can get PCIe motherboards today on the other hand the A64 are faster in games, office etc., has 64bit support and runs cooler.

I would really appreciate your advice.

BTW, in case you want to know, my current set up is…
Athlon XP 2500+ @ 2.31GHz (210 x 11)
Abit NF7-s V2.0
Sapphire X800PRO @ X800xt.
1GB DDR400 corsair twinx PRO RAM (2 2 3 6)
2 x 120GB sata 8Mb cache WD HDD’s in RAID0
etc

 

[PowerK]

I suggest you to wait for a few weeks longer so that MSI Neo2 as well as DFI LanParty series hit the shelves. (both are nForce3 based motherboards).

Especially, from what I hear, DFI nForce3 motherboard is shaping up to be the BEST motherboard for Athlon64 platform for both 754 as well as 939 socket.

Check out these two threads below. Few folks at xtremesys are beta testing DFI motherboards.
DFI looks to have a winner here
Building New AMD64 System, Would You Go 754 or 939?

DFI is rumored to be released around 3rd of August.

 

[PowerK]

BTW, if anyone's going for socket 754 Athlon64, and looking for a good motherboard.. beware of MSI.
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=117815

I wonder how their 939 version will turn out to be. Anandtech gave it a good word in their recent 939 motherboard shootout.....but we need to see final production boards.

 

[epicstruggle]

BTW, if anyone's going for socket 754 Athlon64, and looking for a good motherboard.. beware of MSI.

Their 939 board seems to be the best and should be shortly available. Check anands score, it gives msi the top honors.

epic

 

[Snoochems]

Wow. Thanks for all the feedback guys.

Can someone explain to me what is so good about this "DFI" board.

 

[Gubbi]

Nothing to do with DFI... But.

Another good reason to go with socket 939 is that it has double the bandwidth of socket 754. Which your processor might not be able to exploit (considering how competitive s754 chips are). But a year from now AMD will come out with dual-core chips, and then you can do a cheap upgrade by just replacing the CPU for twice the power.

Cheers
Gubbi

 

[epicstruggle]

Nothing to do with DFI... But.

Another good reason to go with socket 939 is that it has double the bandwidth of socket 754. Which your processor might not be able to exploit (considering how competitive s754 chips are). But a year from now AMD will come out with dual-core chips, and then you can do a cheap upgrade by just replacing the CPU for twice the power.

Cheers
Gubbi

nice, i forgot about that. Im just waiting for msi to release their 939 mobo before i plunge in.

epic

 

[Tim]

Wow. Thanks for all the feedback guys.

Another thing the A64 3000+ and 3200+ for s939 is not far away, if you are going to overclock anyway you might wan't to buy a slower and more important cheaper chip.

 

[Snoochems]

So, you think i should hold on to my Athlon XP for a little bit... and wait for the 3000+/3200+ and this DFI mobo?

What is this DFI mobo anyway? Linkages?

 

[Gubbi]

3000 and 3200+ might not be good overclockers.

That depends on the bin splits AMD sees. As long as AMD can sell the high end chips at their stated ASP they won't need to sell them as slower chips (or lower ASP for the high end). Today you can see that the s939 3800+ is almost twice as expensive as the 3500+ and holding steady. 3500+ and 3800+ alike are poor overclockers. My bet is that the 3000+ and 3200+s that comes out are "old" chips (ie. produced in the past 6 months) that didn't make the 3500+ cut. So they will be crap overclockers.

Things may improve a half to one year from now. That would be the same pattern as for Athlon XPs. The first AXP 1700 (1466MHz, 11x133MHz) I got couldn't overclock at all. The last one I put in my brother's machine does 11x200MHz without upping the voltage.

Cheers
Gubbi

 

[Snoochems]

This upcoming Nforce 4... i have searched around for some info, and all i've found are statements from 'theinquirer'.
These guys, from past experiences, seems to just make BS up.
Is there any 'real' information about the nforce 4.
Does it have both AGP and PCI-E?

 

[PowerK]

Their 939 board seems to be the best and should be shortly available. Check anands score, it gives msi the top honors.

epic

I wonder how their 939 version will turn out to be. Anandtech gave it a good word in their recent 939 motherboard shootout.....but we need to see final production boards.

 

[Gubbi]

Their 939 board seems to be the best and should be shortly available. Check anands score, it gives msi the top honors.

epic

I wonder how their 939 version will turn out to be. Anandtech gave it a good word in their recent 939 motherboard shootout.....but we need to see final production boards.

Since it's the same chipset connected via the same HT links performance should be similar (better actually since there's more main memory bandwidth).

Cheers
Gubbi

 

[jvd]

Hey just a quick shout out . THe 3400s are hitting high speeds AMA3400BEX5AP core is at 4ghz (using special cooling)

but most are hitting 2.7-3 gigs with stock cooling.

Really good chip.

I'm using an a64 3000+ with watercooling running at 2.65 and its benching faster than the fx 53s and I'm on a lowly 754 board