Haswell vs Kaveri

good to know, we will maybe get some little information about what expect for next 6months.. ( and i hope this will not end as a rumor milestones )
 
no-X said:
Source?
http://www.hartware.de/media/news/53000/53966_7b.jpg

Kaveri was this year's product from the beginning. Richland is just a back-up plan, becasue AMD realized, that they can't catch back-to-school period with Kaveri. It may be delayed to 2014, but it wasn't projected to be a 2014 product.
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Source: Leslie Sobon interview at CES.


AMD expects to start shipping Kaveri in a late Q4 timeframe this year. These parts will be desktop at first and will transition to mobile in 2014. AMD wants (and needs) to get these parts out in a timely manner, and they are pulling in the launch as much as possible. Hence the desktop first release while they refine production to be able to adequately address the mobile space. Achieving good bins and yields at the higher TDP is easier than trying to hit those numbers for a 35 watt and below product line.
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http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Shows-and-Expos/AMD-CES-2013-Temash-Kabini-and-Kaveri-side-Sea-Islands


Since then it was clear Kaveri is a 2014 product. Everything else was just a show from AMD.
 
Sorry, but you stated, that AMD had never planned to release Kaveri this year. None of the sources proves your theory. Even the simple fact, that Kaveri appeared in roadmaps several quarters before Richland, points that your theory is not correct.
 
Showcase Roadmaps doesn't count. Showcase Roadmaps are flexible, it doesn't necessarily reflect a launch date, more probably a manufacturing start or shipment.

All sane people didn't expect Kaveri for this year after the Roadmap change where Richland replaced Kaveri for 2013.

I bet confidential internal Roadmaps never listed Kaveri for 2013 since late 2012. AMD itself confirmed as you can see. The best case since beginning this year was a shipment in a late Q4 timeframe, means no hard launch and availability was expected and realistic since then for this year because you have to add usually 2-3 months at least. I told months ago about this. Internal Kaveri is a 2014 product since many months. No surprise for all realistic thinking people. The latest news just indicates a further delay to mid 2014.
 
Leslie Sobon also tells you that AMD products are the best ever. Do you unflinchingly take her word for that? Also there are some famous (probably ghost written) tips for dating geeks - do you also believe those? I'm not exactly sure how a marketing person's words are any better (or worse for that matter) than a nicely coloured slide, so a more wait and see-ish attitude would perhaps be in order. It would even be...gasp...sane, since we're fond of that particular evaluation.
 
AlexV said:
Leslie Sobon also tells you that AMD products are the best ever. Do you unflinchingly take her word for that? Also there are some famous (probably ghost written) tips for dating geeks - do you also believe those? I'm not exactly sure how a marketing person's words are any better (or worse for that matter) than a nicely coloured slide, so a more wait and see-ish attitude would perhaps be in order. It would even be...gasp...sane, since we're fond of that particular evaluation.
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Especially since there's no direct quote of Leslie Sobon, so this could just be the writer's (mis)interpretation of her words.
 
I wonder how if Iris Pro is memory bandwidth limited to any significant extent in games. It's something how it catches up to 750M in some games.
 
Yes of course, but drawing 82W in a laptop with a 47W CPU+GPU is bordering on the impossible. Where is the other 35W going?

The 65W Richland on desktop is only drawing 87W. The i7 4700HQ (45W) with GT 750M (45W) is only drawing 89W. Both of those make perfect sense.

CPU and GPU still accounts for the vast majority of system power draw. There is no way this is a 47W chip. It is clearly drawing more power than the 84W Intel desktop chips during gaming as well.
 
jimbo75 said:
CPU and GPU still accounts for the vast majority of system power draw.
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Screen is usually a good portion of the power draw too, and I didn't get any sense that the reviewer even calibrated brightness between the different units. Does the desktop A10 numbers even include screen power? I'm guessing not.

The numbers really just aren't very useful when they are measuring completely different laptops without even attempting to normalize the other factors. I also get a sense from other parts of that review that the Asus system is probably just better made... for instance the FPS graphs for the Iris Pro chip look like there's probably some thermal throttling going on. That said, the translation of the review is pretty rough, so it's hard to get a real sense for the parameters of the test.

As reviewers are going to discover, thermal solutions really are going to dictate the performance of laptops in the future far more than chip specifications. I'd love to see some power/frequency graphs (for instance, from the Intel Extreme Tuning utility) alongside their frame times in the future.
 
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Thermal solutions already are negatively affecting quite some notebooks. Slim design is paramount it seems. A wee tiny blower vs 90W power output in some machines. Throttling makes it "work" by preventing thermal runaway.
 
Paran said:
When you look to other numbers from other notebooks it certainly is possible. A10-4600M which is 35W TDP can draw over 70W. These are system power draw numbers of course.

http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/...haswell-prozessoren-fuer-notebooks-im-test/8/
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Trinity-in-Review-AMD-A10-4600M-APU.74852.0.html
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The gx60 has a 7970M in it does it not? Kinda hard to follow the translation sometimes.

I guess if screen is being included on the Haswell systems then it makes some kind of sense, though it's completely unfair to take power like that, especially when including desktop chips. It still doesn't quite explain the closeness to the combined 90W 4700HQ+750M though.
 
Pointed out to me on twitter: https://www.system76.com/laptops/model/galu1
Fairly thin and light 14" 1080p IPS matte (yay!) display. i7-4750HQ w/ Iris Pro 5200 and EDRAM. Base price is $995, although personally I'd config an SSD in there.

A prototype of this system is what we have been using to demo Iris Pro at GDC and SIGGRAPH (running GRID 2 and others), in case an of you guys saw those demos.
 
Not bad but what about the same with a 3200x1800 display :) small 1080p will have you squinting eyes when running the wrong app or OS.
It's nonetheless excellent, even keyboard layout seems fine (and possibly quality) and the thing does triple display, counting the laptop's one.

I can see such a system being successful and very well received (at least by vocal dev/linux/unix geeks), Iris is just icing on the cake
 
Blazkowicz said:
Not bad but what about the same with a 3200x1800 display :) small 1080p will have you squinting eyes when running the wrong app or OS.
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Hehe yeah. Win8.1 makes scaling a fair bit better (can even go to 2x if you want now), but no idea how Linux handles that sort of thing.

Blazkowicz said:
I can see such a system being successful and very well received (at least by vocal dev/linux/unix geeks), Iris is just icing on the cake
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Yeah as I mentioned, I'm sort of surprised they can sell it for that price given the hardware... seems like a good deal and some really nice config options (up to 16GB RAM, mSATA SSD + second drive, etc). Curious to see what other OEMs do with Iris Pro, but this is frankly a decent starting bar...
 
Andrew Lauritzen said:
Hehe yeah. Win8.1 makes scaling a fair bit better (can even go to 2x if you want now), but no idea how Linux handles that sort of thing.
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Linux can handle it just fine is you're running a tiling window manager with a bunch of terminals (and that's enough to create scalable documents with Latex for example). I'm joking a bit but that can be a serious, legitimate use case. Displaying lots of code, mail, IRC, remote hosts, debugger and then having various test VMs and a simulated production environment in the background.

Well if you want more colorful things, dunno :) it's not up to linux but to the endless diversity of software, toolkits etc. to support it. Maybe environments running on Mir and Wayland will handle it (Ubuntu, KDE 5?)
 
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