Gaming in China

[edepot]

pcchen

Is this really true? Half price? Are you sure the price is from taiwan? (are you really in Taiwan?) For the example you provided here is what I came with:

http://www.fbms.com.tw/customer/product.php?productid=9614

That comes to about $60, and this is a Traditional Chinese version. Can you provide a taiwanese online retailer for this game that provides it at half price?

On the second thought, this might not be a good example, as it could be used or discounted. How about a "priced as new" for any current game? Like Uncharted 2 or MW2 that is priced at half in Taiwan (Traditional Chinese version).

 

[pcchen]

By half the price I mean half of the Japanese price (which was pretty normal when games were mostly imported). Also, that is a high profile game. A high profile PS3 game is generally priced 7,980 yen, which is more than NT$2,000 (now it's probably more likely NT$2,700). This is an example:

http://www.tvgame.com.tw/product/tvgshow.asp?proid=6010302200

Compared to this, it's significantly cheaper (by the way, NT$1,650 is not US$60, it's ~US$52. Big difference).

EDIT: Uncharted 2 (example here) is priced at NT$1,690. MW2 (example here) is NT$1,790. Note that although these games are made by US companies, it's common in Taiwan for games to priced according to Japanese versions (i.e. the 7,980 yen price).

 

[edepot]

You are right. $52, but if you remove the discount on the right (150 NT), the retail is actually close to $60. So compared to the US, it is not really a discount for Taiwan.

 

[pcchen]

You can get the same price at retail stores, maybe even cheaper. But the standard price for imported games is NT$2,800 (an example here), which is a little more than the Japanese price (7,980 yen).

 

[Lidve]

How do they retrofit consoles to be coin operated? Or what other revenue stream do they use?

http://arcadecontrols.com/arcade.htm

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Eurogamer: Sony laments China's PS4 "censorship regime"

Sales of the PlayStation 4 in China have yet to take off, and Sony says a lot of that has to do with censorship.

The PS4 went on sale in China in March for 2899 yuan (£307), with Knack, Rayman Legends, Trials Fusion and Dynasty Warriors 8: Xtreme Legends Complete Edition available. There were also a couple of China-focused PS4 games: King of Wushu and Mr.Pumpkin's Adventure.​

 

[Nesh]

A country with billions of population and struggles to increase sales numbers because of "politics". What a missed opportunity

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Eurogamer: Sony laments China's PS4 "censorship regime"

LoL at this generic statement.

Despite this, House said he still saw "tremendous potential for gaming as an entertainment medium in China".

No duh, gaming is already in the billions of USD in China and has been for some time. There's no potential there, the potential was realized years ago.

It's just that consoles currently aren't really a part of it. And even mobile devices are only a small (but growing) part of it.

And good luck if you aren't a free to play game and/or an MMO. Something that can easily be played in a PC gaming center.

Regards,
SB

 

[Deleted member 11852]

No duh, gaming is already in the billions of USD in China and has been for some time. There's no potential there, the potential was realized years ago.

I believe he means a profitable console market as exists in the rest of the world, i.e not having to create games that specifically comply with China's censorship restrictions.

And good luck if you aren't a free to play game and/or an MMO. Something that can easily be played in a PC gaming centre.

This is plain wrong, China's censorship restrictions all to all forms of entertainment - games (on all platforms), music, books, movies and TV.

You can't legally buy mainstream games like Call of Duty in China, instead Activision created Call of Duty Online, specifically to skirt China's censorship restrictions. There is a vibrant gaming industry in China but excepting the illicit trade in Western/Eastern games the games released there have to comply with the censorship policy.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What the Chinese console industry needs is Chinese development studios. Make the homegrown content for the home market. However, that's a chicken-and-egg situation I suppose, as no-one's going to commit to develop to the tiny console market in the hopes of it one day growing when there's a far larger or more accessible PC/mobile market. So short of the console companies investing massively in software specific to the market, I think the Chinese console industry isn't going to happen any time soon.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Yup. Some games translate fine to the Chinese market. GTA V sold great on PC in China but then the Chinese have no problems with the basic premise (or content in) GTA. Their censorship rules aren't about violence but about more fundamental aspecst of Chinese culture and about contradicting the behaviour and culture they want to promote.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

This is plain wrong, China's censorship restrictions all to all forms of entertainment - games (on all platforms), music, books, movies and TV.

You can't legally buy mainstream games like Call of Duty in China, instead Activision created Call of Duty Online, specifically to skirt China's censorship restrictions. There is a vibrant gaming industry in China but excepting the illicit trade in Western/Eastern games the games released there have to comply with the censorship policy.

It's not all wrong. Even if a game gets by the censorship restrictions (there are plenty, even if not up to the quantities we're used to), a non-F2P game and/or MMO is going to have a difficult time. Mainly because while there is an affluent segment of the population, it is a relatively tiny minority.

A game represents a big investment to the average Chinese gamer. F2P allows them to try the game and play it for free. And if they have the cash they can spend it on in game purchases. When they do it'll often be for more than the price of a stand alone game.

MMO's are popular because not only can they be F2P, but they offer more potential gaming time per month per dollar spent than almost any other gaming genre on the planet. Only open world games come close to the gaming value that a good MMO provides. Even more so if it's a F2P MMO.

All of this is about low risk purchasing. 60 USD (or however much the games sell for in China) for a 4-20 hour single player experience is a lot to ask. Especially if there's a risk the gamer won't even like the game.

That also involves having to invest in your own system. Something that is still out of the range of the majority of Chinese gamers. Hence, the humongous popularity of gaming centers where you can rent time on a PC. Which also synergizes well with F2P and MMO gaming as progress in either of those is automatically saved to your account, rather than to your machine.

Censorship is obviously a thing. But for the Chinese gaming market, it's a red herring. The consoles would do marginally better without it, but it doesn't overcome the main reason why console gaming has a hard time attracting buyers in China. Which is cost and risk associated with outright purchasing an expensive title.

Oh and F2P gaming gives many less affluent Chinese players the hope that they can someday make a living playing games as eSport is huge in China. Another incentive that gets them to spend inordinate hours trying to hone their skills in X F2P eSport game.

BTW - online games have to pass censorship restrictions also, or risk getting added to the Great Firewall of China.

Regards,
SB

 

[Deleted member 11852]

And how does any of what you said change what the Sony guy said? The video game market in China is already worth billions (in US dollars) each year but the games have to avoid so many cultural prohibitions to skirt the censorship rules that very few Western/Eastern/Asian games, that were not developed with China in mind, can be released there.

I take the Sony guy as saying we don't want to have to develop China only releases. They've had still with Japan to a less extended but where Japan is still has a meta-market in terms of genres and cultural things that don't work elsewhere or which are unacceptable within Japan itself.

Look at the list of games released with the Xbox One and PS4 in China and it's no wonder the consoles aren't selling great. Unless you can source games form the black market it's grim times. I wouldn't buy a PS4 with that line up.

 

[Pixel]

In a country of 1.3 billion, its more likely that a population of 80-120 million can realistically afford a $500 console. Comepare household vs household incomes or individual vs individual incomes in China vs America. Many households in China with both adults working will have children which will be an added expense, meaning less disposable income.

 

[BRiT]

In a country of 1.3 billion, its more likely that a population of 80-120 million can realistically afford a $500 console. Comepare household vs household incomes or individual vs individual incomes in China vs America. Many households in China with both adults working will have children which will be an added expense, meaning less disposable income.

What sources are you using? These make it seem like a $500 console would be half a year's salary -- http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/20/world/asia/survey-in-china-shows-wide-income-gap.html?_r=0 or http://www.worldsalaries.org/china.shtml or http://www.tradingeconomics.com/china/disposable-personal-income


The survey found that in 2012, the households in the top 5 percent income bracket earned 23 percent of China’s total household income. The households in the lowest 5 percent accounted for just 0.1 percent of total income.

Average annual income for a family in 2012 was 13,000 renminbi, or about $2,100. When broken down by geography, the survey results showed that the average amount in Shanghai, a huge coastal city, was just over 29,000 renminbi, or $4,700, while the average in Gansu Province, far from the coast in northwest China, was 11,400 renminbi, or just under $2,000. Average family income in urban areas was about $2,600, while it was $1,600 in rural areas.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

And how does any of what you said change what the Sony guy said? The video game market in China is already worth billions (in US dollars) each year but the games have to avoid so many cultural prohibitions to skirt the censorship rules that very few Western/Eastern/Asian games, that were not developed with China in mind, can be released there.

Because censorship is the least of the worries when trying to release a Western title in China. Price is the biggest factor (console + software). And overshadows EVERYTHING else.

The dominant method by which one accesses modern gaming in China is the PC gaming center. The most played games are F2P games. There are plenty of Korean games (like Blade and Soul) and American games (like DOTA2 and LoL) which are highly successful in China. There are even successful Japanese games although I can't think of any off the top of my head at a moment.

Hell, you have to get by Korean censors to get a game released in Korea (Diablo III almost got banned there). Yet they redid the game to make a specific Korean version despite Korea being a MUCH smaller market than China.

Redoing a title to get by censorship is worth it if it's a genre/title that the Chinese find compelling and is either cheap or free to play. Blade and Soul for example has a China specific version. As do many Korean F2P MMOs.

Censorship is just an excuse. Because they know they do not have products which can be commercially successful in China at the prices they require for it to be profitable. They can be successful...IF they are free or extremely cheap (like around 1-2 USD per game). Then you make money with in game purchases (F2P model). Or if it's a genre they care about. Guild Wars 2 is hugely successful there despite having a up front cost associated with it...because it's a MMO and doesn't have monthly MMO fees...and works fantastically in PC gaming centers on machines that are potentially shared by 10's to 100's of people in any given week/month.

Anything that can't easily be played in a gaming center is going to always be small potatos. Consoles offer almost nothing that is compelling to the average Chinese gamer. There's huge up front cost (the console) and then there's a relatively large added cost with each game purchased. F2P games are still not hugely prevalent although at least they exist. MMOs are also under-represented.

And, of course, the biggest potential concern for console makers. For console gaming to be successful in China they have to be able to work easily in gaming centers to service many many many players per console. Which means less console sales. And if using physical media, less game sales as well as one game purchase can easily service 10's to 100's of players a week/month.

Censorship? That's just a red herring. It's a real problem, but is dwarfed by the main problems that face console adoption in that country. China isn't the only country where many titles have to be reworked to get by censorship laws. Korea, Germany, and Australia are just a few others that often require special versions to get by censorship laws.

Hell, there was a time when companies had to release special censored versions of games if they wanted those games sold in Walmart. It was also fairly common up until a few years ago for some European games to have to release a special censored version for sale in the USA. That's mostly died down with the advent of Steam and digitally driven sales, however.

[edit] One thing I forgot to mention. The PCs used in the gaming centers in China are quite likely cheaper than the consoles being sold in China. They mostly use used parts sourced from other countries like Japan, Korea, and the US. And probably Europe as well, but not as sure about that one. Some of the gaming centers in more affluent cities might actually use new hardware, and those would be the ones where consoles have a potential to get in. Although revenue for console makers would be miniscule.

Regards,
SB

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Because censorship is the least of the worries when trying to release a Western title in China. Price is the biggest factor (console + software). And overshadows EVERYTHING else.

Seemingly not to Sony. Andrew House doesn't mention pricing being a barrier to competing, he's very specifically addressing the impact of censorship in China and the way it is administrated: "We are still challenged somewhat with a censorship regime that we have to work with. This can be time-consuming,"

Although it is ironic that a console manufacturer is complaining about the approval process being required beofre games can be relased. Hello pot, meet this black kettle.

 

[Rurouni]

The console price itself is almost a non factor to a console success in China. What prevent X1 and PS4 succeed in China is the game price. They used to pay very little for a game (or even free) because of piracy. It's like some people don't think too much about buying a 10000 car or 30000 car. But when the gas price sky rocketed, they are thinking about whether they should buy a car.
I believe the majority of Chinese gamers still want to buy console but they just can't afford to buy the games, especially comparing it with the piracy era where you can buy a game for $1. The next affordable gaming is F2P, which is probably the most played form of gaming played in China. If Sony or others want to succeed in China, either they have to sell the game at a very cheap price or focus their effort on creating/offering F2P content and make money from micro transaction. The first one is probably not what publishers want and I don't think Sony have a lot F2P games to offer.we I
Basically, they have to think on how they can offer the content for cheap. Cheap as in really cheap. Maybe an online rental system with a free demo system (like you can play for 2 hours for free and pay a very small amount of money to extend it)?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

When a console costs the average Chinese worker 1/4 to 1/6 of their entire yearly income. The price of the console is a barrier.

Check out how well GW2 did in China. A full price, non-pirateable, title. But one that a player can enjoy for multiple years with constantly updated content for the single purchase price. Also happens to be a title that the user doesn't need to own a machine to play. They can just go to their local game center and rent time on a machine to play it.

Regards,
SB

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Seemingly not to Sony. Andrew House doesn't mention pricing being a barrier to competing, he's very specifically addressing the impact of censorship in China and the way it is administrated: "We are still challenged somewhat with a censorship regime that we have to work with. This can be time-consuming,"

Although it is ironic that a console manufacturer is complaining about the approval process being required beofre games can be relased. Hello pot, meet this black kettle.

Yes, it's a red herring to continue to keep investors interested at the possibility that if only the Chinese government would change, that the console would be a success.

I don't, however, see them complaining about the censorship regulations that games have to pass in other countries around the world. Nor that games are hugely popular in China despite the censorship regulations.

He does leave out the fact that the game types and game genres that ARE popular in China aren't generally found on consoles. Or that the revenue model for games in China are not friendly to console makers.

If it's something the average Chinese gamer wants and is willing to buy (can afford), altering the game to abide by censorship laws is cheap compared to the profit you will generate. GW2 for example sold 3.8 million copies in the first 2 months of sales (doubling WW sales which up to that time was 3.5 million). Because it was something that the Chinese gamer wanted and was willing to pay for.

Regards,
SB