Gameplay elements, evolution, and enjoyment not for everyone? [2019+] *spawn*

iroboto said:
And then the preference comes down to actually having downtime. Loading screens is a time for me to reflect on the game; plan what to do next; bio breaks; stretching; checking the phone; typing messages etc. I can get around the load time but it’s loading while I can do my thing.
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I usually just pause the game if I need a short break to do whatever. Also I rarely ever play a single player game more than once, I take my time though with the first playthrough but almost never replay a game.
That's just me though, I don't really reread books or watch movies again after I'm done with them either.

Back to the uncharted Jeep winch thing I can't see how in the world you would rather have a load screen than those short moments of story and actual gameplay in a story driven single player game, but that's just me though and looking at sales of Sony's recent first party games thankfully many others.
 
It seems simple to me to understand...

The load screens will get faster with newer hardware but these time-sync events will always take the same amount of time, even if it's being executed or run on a console 2 or 3 generations from now.


Also, it's not solid gameplay at all. They have as much gameplay enjoyment as the initial splash screens.
 
BRiT said:
It seems simple to me to understand...

The load screens will get faster with newer hardware but these time-sync events will always take the same amount of time, even if it's being executed or run on a console 2 or 3 generations from now.


Also, it's not solid gameplay at all. They have as much gameplay enjoyment as the initial splash screens.
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Firstly what's new hardware got to do with the price of eggs? Do I have a next gen console? Do you? For me I don't play old games on new hardware, who has the time for that? To think a developer should compromise the experience for some future hardware is asinine.

The gameplay might be basic but the story that they deliver during those moments all adds up to a more cohesive experience. Like I said earlier loading screens is the most jarring thing for me while I'm enjoying a single player story.

I'm currently playing Darksiders 3 which I probably wouldn't of because of reviews but I got it free so thought what the hell and I'm enjoying it immensely but oh how I wished they had implemented a different method or improved upon there current method to hide loading. It's the biggest flaw of the game for me otherwise fantastic game so far.
 
Xbat said:
Back to the uncharted Jeep winch thing I can't see how in the world you would rather have a load screen than those short moments of story and actual gameplay in a story driven single player game...
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Iroboto didn't say he'd prefer to have loading screens. He said the inclusions of forced delays for the purpose of hiding loading is where 'cinematic' really breaks (for him) as you are being taken away from your own independent gameplay. However, that's better than a loading screen (in his opinion as well as everyone else's), but it's also worse than not having those events due to not having to hide loading which, hopefully, next-gen will fix. In short, he acknowledged them as a necessary evil.
 
I don't know the way I understood it he would rather have loading screens so that he could do different real life things instead of baby sit a character through the loading process?
 
Shifty Geezer said:
Iroboto didn't say he'd prefer to have loading screens. He said the inclusions of forced delays for the purpose of hiding loading is where 'cinematic' really breaks (for him) as you are being taken away from your own independent gameplay. However, that's better than a loading screen (in his opinion as well as everyone else's), but it's also worse than not having those events due to not having to hide loading which, hopefully, next-gen will fix. In short, he acknowledged them as a necessary evil.
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In my case it didn't even pass my mind it had to do with any loading. I received it as an intentional mechanic and I liked it, unless it was overdone.
I mean...sure why not reach a point where you would need to pull your jeep with a wire because it is more steep?
Should this idea in general be thrown into the dustbin and not see it in a game ever?
 
Xbat said:
I don't know the way I understood it he would rather have loading screens so that he could do different real life things instead of baby sit a character through the loading process?
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Oh, he did say that in his follow-up post that I didn't read. I disagree there as that'd be a major, abrupt interruption in Uncharted 4. Driving along, then having a stop screen, then picking up again. If you need to go do something, press the pause button and do it whenever you want.

Nesh said:
I mean...sure why not reach a point where you would need to pull your jeep with a wire because it is more steep?
Should this idea in general be thrown into the dustbin and not see it in a game ever?
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No, because some people will like it. But for others following a bunch of on-screen prompts isn't really gameplay. It's not rewarding. For them, you'd need to have a chance for failure, say, and have to execute the jeep-pull effectively, or have the choice to perform a winch pull versus looking for another route up.

Personally I didn't find the jeep-pull invasive but just part-and-parcel of the UC way of doing things. I find the irregular button prompts far more annoying.
 
I don’t mind loading screens; will prefer this over hidden if required. It is a nexessary evil but it can also be avoided. Some games can be designed without them. See other open world games like RDR2 or Forza Horizon, the Witcher etc. Minimal loading screens; only for major area changes.

the thing with games that use cutscenes to hide loading screens is that they are designed together in mind with the level. They use the time to advance dialog between NPC etc. All of it is very well hidden from the player. For someone looking exactly for this type of gameplay; it seems as if nothing is amiss. Unless you aren’t engaged with the story the you’re just looking for a skip button that’s not there.

as for preference for loading screens; That only became apparent After playing TOW. It was refreshing to not get locked in cutscenes. But I also realize that there were a crazy amount of loading screens. But I could skip content I didn’t care about. There were many times I could just say F it; I’ve had enough and walk off the intended path skipping stuff.
 
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Destiny gives different perspective for loading screen.

It become a place to show bling (space ships), fiddle around with equipment, looking at other characters' equipment / stats, playing for Quests, etc
 
orangpelupa said:
Destiny gives different perspective for loading screen.

It become a place to show bling (space ships), fiddle around with equipment, looking at other characters' equipment / stats, playing for Quests, etc
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destiny does it well. It allows you to modify your load outs and see your fireteams load outs. You can still do things. And I think that also works very well.

also loading into MP you can see how your opponents are equipping as well.
 
iroboto said:
destiny does it well. It allows you to modify your load outs and see your fireteams load outs. You can still do things. And I think that also works very well.

also loading into MP you can see how your opponents are equipping as well.
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Yeah, it really hits me like a truck when I played Anthem with its numerous LOOOOONG loading screen where I can't do anything.

Sure destiny UX is not perfect, but it flows really really well with the gameplay and player needs (compared to other games, especially competitive shooters and MMO)
 
orangpelupa said:
Yeah, it really hits me like a truck when I played Anthem with its numerous LOOOOONG loading screen where I can't do anything.

Sure destiny UX is not perfect, but it flows really really well with the gameplay and player needs (compared to other games, especially competitive shooters and MMO)
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Yea Anthem is both painfully long and you're unable to modify your loadout. its really bad
 
Shifty Geezer said:
No, because some people will like it. But for others following a bunch of on-screen prompts isn't really gameplay. It's not rewarding. For them, you'd need to have a chance for failure, say, and have to execute the jeep-pull effectively, or have the choice to perform a winch pull versus looking for another route up.

Personally I didn't find the jeep-pull invasive but just part-and-parcel of the UC way of doing things. I find the irregular button prompts far more annoying.
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I think it is ok for some games to have their rewarding sections and their chill sections. It is not a rule that every area should be a challenge. Some challenges are needless and by forcing success and failure in some areas do not guarantee a sensation of a rewarding experience. They can be source of frustration instead.
How many times did we have games were they added extra gameplay sections that forced a needless challenge?
i.e if a game is mainly an action-shoot em up like Vanguish or beat em up game like DMC, I want my action sections to be challenging. But if that game has an extra section where I have to climb trees to reach my next area it can be far more intrusive and add frustration to force a challenge for such a task. It kills the pacing and is an out of place challenge.
So it always depends on the game.
 
Shifty Geezer said:
You probably should have down times, following the principles of drama where you need the contrast of highs and lows. Certainly in cinematic games.
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Even Mario Bros have down times IIRC. Or was it yoshi's Island?

Those "down time" do need to be properly designed tho. Agree with @Nesh

On some games, those can feels like annoying filler or arbitrary wall (stares at Destiny series)
 
Nesh said:
I think it is ok for some games to have their rewarding sections and their chill sections. It is not a rule that every area should be a challenge. Some challenges are needless and by forcing success and failure in some areas do not guarantee a sensation of a rewarding experience. They can be source of frustration instead.
How many times did we have games were they added extra gameplay sections that forced a needless challenge?
i.e if a game is mainly an action-shoot em up like Vanguish or beat em up game like DMC, I want my action sections to be challenging. But if that game has an extra section where I have to climb trees to reach my next area it can be far more intrusive and add frustration to force a challenge for such a task. It kills the pacing and is an out of place challenge.
So it always depends on the game.
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That killed the original God of War for me. I'd been having fun, hacking away at every mythical fool that dared cross me, and then it shifted into a climbing timing game. And after half an hour of failing at that mini game, I have never played it since. Never will, those rotating pillars of spikes can suck my arse.

Shifty Geezer said:
You probably should have down times, following the principles of drama where you need the contrast of highs and lows. Certainly in cinematic games.
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Uncharted 2 is still the best instance of this IMO. It seemed like every time I was getting a bit weary of gunfights, there'd be a platforming section. And then every time I was getting a bit twitchy after too much of the naff platforming, it was another gunfight.
 
There's so much discussion about trying to make games declared into an art form. The real art form is the pace, mixup, etc, basically managing the player all the way through ensuring that have a brilliant experience through fast and slow flows, action, platforming, problem solving etc.

Latest Jim Inquisition touching on the same topic here.
 
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An article on sony's more filmic approach to their games and more.

https://www.theverge.com/2016/5/10/11639246/uncharted-4-cinematic-game-review-ps4-playstation

Snippits taken from the article

''The console, Sony hoped, would entice film lovers to try video games.''

''More than its contemporaries, 'Uncharted' plays like a movie''

''The adventure doesn’t rush to be more than a series of cutscenes interrupted by spartan controllable sequences where the player learns how to walk on the game’s invisible path of progress.''

''Because the game’s world is larger, and the player’s path is uncertain, Rise of the Tomb Raider lacks the detailing of Uncharted 4, where one walk across a rope bridge feels as if dozens of artists sunk weeks into its each splintering plank of wood — because they almost certainly did.''

''But mostly, these moments — which are harrowing and unforgettable — are sleights of hand designed to trick the player into thinking they have control of a movie.''

''The best way to enjoy Uncharted, like a movie, is to be passive.''

"[Fans] don't want a movie"

''Stylized cutscenes looked like adult versions of popular computer-animated film, and made for effective marketing, the latter of which copied the movie trailer formula down to the second.''


 
there is gun shooting, plateforming, stealth, hand fighting, puzzle solving, difficulty settings. I swear if i did not do anything with the controller the game would not have progressed by itself :D
hell it has everything good old 16bit era games had, cutscenes are the cherry on the cake (for me)
 
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