FORMULA Lol

[davefb]

The rules don't allow for a compromise, and there was certainly none that offered the teams that bought viable cars (ie Bridgestone runners) the overwhelming advantage and points they enjoyed in the US GP. The main Bridgestone runner (Ferrari) had major problems with their tyres at the beginning of the year, including Schumacher blowing two tyres, but no one suggested changing the rules for the benefit of the Bridgestone runners.

yeah i heard ferrari say this.. but since it was just schumachers car , not barrichelos or any jordan or minardi then surely this is down to his setup ( or him using a different compound and the other compound was okay). i wonder if that was what bridgestone requested, ie "if the driver makes a bad choice, can he change compounds without penalty".

 

[PatrickL]

You know that 9 teams out of 10 agreed on the chicane. Only FIA and Ferrari refused. Minardi' s manager (team with bridgestone) issued a very harsh press release against Ferrari.

 

[_xxx_]

If your car doesn't work right, you surely won't start rebuilding or changing the track, so that chicane idea is bull. I think they should have cancelled the race completely and do it after the rest of the season as a finale, with tickets being still valid.

 

[Nappe1]

You know that 9 teams out of 10 agreed on the chicane. Only FIA and Ferrari refused. Minardi' s manager (team with bridgestone) issued a very harsh press release against Ferrari.

Ferrari didn't attend at all to the meeting talking about chicane. they left it up to FIA. So Ferrari's "effort" on the situation was this time plain zero.

First screwed Michelin. Still they did massive amount of work try to fix the situation, so that their client teams should not suffer from their mistake. FIA decided take "no slipping from the rules, what ever it costs" -line here, and this time the price was U.S. GP and all the work put in to USA make F1 popular there. Now, when shit happened, because FIA thought they can be gods, they are blaming for everything Michelin.

yesterday, Mosley announced that he will take all 7 teams and Michelin to F1 World council on june 29th. If we take a look how weak connections WCGP teams and FIA have had during this season, does telling the teams "Don't f*ck with us, we are the gods." sound good idea after all this?

- I don't think so.

 

[atlantis]

yeah i heard ferrari say this.. but since it was just schumachers car , not barrichelos or any jordan or minardi then surely this is down to his setup.

Barrichello was forced to retire in malaysia for excessive rear tyre degradation and had to slow down in the last laps for the same problem in bahrain.

 

[Fruitfrenzy]

I think the FIAs explanation about adding a chicane is quite reasonable. There was no time to test a change to the track to the standards that are required. Had there been an accident near the chicane the lawyers would have torn them to pieces for making changes without following their own safety guidlines.

For that reason alone I don't think the chicane idea was never realistic and I expect all of the michelin teams know that.

 

[digitalwanderer]

What is a "chicane" for us racing ignorant? :|

 

[davefb]

What is a "chicane" for us racing ignorant? :|

narrow right/left ( or left/right) [edit] combination of bends, means you have to slow down..

after senna's death there were a number introduced at certain circuits to reduce speed. ( so this isnt without precedent).

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

yeah i heard ferrari say this.. but since it was just schumachers car , not barrichelos or any jordan or minardi then surely this is down to his setup ( or him using a different compound and the other compound was okay). i wonder if that was what bridgestone requested, ie "if the driver makes a bad choice, can he change compounds without penalty".

All the Bridgestone runners has tyre problems towards the beginning of the year, particularly tyre wear and lack of grip, but because there are only three teams using the tyres and only Ferrari are a top team, it really only affected Ferrari. Do you know what they did? They drove slower around the track than the other cars.

 

[incurable]

IMHO, it was the bestest race evahhHH!

Seriously, though, it's quite clear that Michelin was the root for all problems. They fucked up when preparing for this GP, and after what happened to Ralf Schumacher last year at the same spot, I can't feel a tad bit sorry for them as they did know that they had a problem and 12 months to work it out.

What I would've liked to see was Bridgestone offering two free sets of tyres to the Michelin teams for the race, just for the kicks of it. (knowing that they'd have to decline the offer)

Anyways, I think F1 is done in the US for the foreseeable future, who's gonna buy tickets next year? Will they even fullfill the contract, which IIRC runs through 2006, and race in Indy again?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

you are TOTALLY wrong US. the problem of 'bad' tyres is michelins,the problem of not having a race is the FIA's.

Of course it is davefb .. if michelin tells the teams it won't allow them to race, then of course it's gonna be the FIA's problem.

by just having a friday practice, then saturday qualifying there is a deliberate mechanism to create 'bad' setups. this was deliberate to avoid teams nailing the setups down. michelin before qualifying were trying to sort this by getting different tyres, but the FIA were standing firm . You can't just give the teams the tyres, they would have needed a delay / extra test session to check things could run.

Michelin should've brought two different tyre's to the race. They didn't. The FIA had told them on the 1 June that they would need better tyres because of all the tyre failures during the year.

It must also be remembered that the FIA wrote to all of the teams and both tyre manufacturers on June 1, 2005, to emphasise that “tyres should be built to be reliable under all circumstancesâ€￾ (see correspondence attached).

http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press_Releases/FIA_Sport/2005/June/200605-01.html

this year indy track has been resurfaced ( i dont know about the f1 infield). Nascar and IRL had testing sessions, there were problems with the track , originally tyre problems (failures , grip? dont know). Later they had lack of grip , which is why there was a 'diamond' cut put into the track ( speed had dropped to 209mph,, at indy!)..

Please refer to above answer.

michelin requested help to sort a problem , the FIA stood firm. race doesnt run..
what i find staggering is to recommend some cars run slower through a 200mph bend, in what way was that safe? thats why the chicane in order that everyone slowed down.....

Please read below:

A chicane would have forced all cars, including those with tyres optimised for high-speed, to run on a circuit whose characteristics had changed fundamentally – from ultra-high speed (because of turn 13) to very slow and twisting. It would also have involved changing the circuit without following any of the modern safety procedures, possibly with implications for the cars and their brakes. It is not difficult to imagine the reaction of an American court had there been an accident (whatever its cause) with the FIA having to admit it had failed to follow its own rules and safety procedures.

http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press_Releases/FIA_Sport/2005/June/200605-01.html

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Further to events at the 2005 United States Grand Prix, representatives of the seven Michelin teams have been summoned to a hearing of the FIA World Motor Sport Council to be held in Paris on Wednesday, June 29, 2005.

----------------------------------------

It has been brought to our attention that extracts from the document summoning the seven Michelin teams to the FIA World Motor Sport Council have reached some members of the Press.

In the interests of transparency we have therefore decided to publish the charges faced by each team in their entirety.

To read the charges faced by each team please click here.

http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/1962994930__21_06_2005_wmsc_letters.pdf

http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press_Releases/FIA_Sport/2005/June/210605-01.html

 

[PatrickL]

One thing: Michelin had safe tyres in time for the race. I was the tyre that were on the way to jerez and were sent in emergency to Indianapolis. But FIA under theses fucked rules refused to qualify the tyres. So saying that there were no other solution is really far fetched.

 

[atlantis]

After all, what is a "rules"?
Something to eat?

 

[davefb]

One thing: Michelin had safe tyres in time for the race. I was the tyre that were on the way to jerez and were sent in emergency to Indianapolis. But FIA under theses fucked rules refused to qualify the tyres. So saying that there were no other solution is really far fetched.

not nesc. michelin have said these wouldnt have worked either.

remember at the first IRL test for the full circuit , bridgestone had to cancel due to unexplained tyre failure. IRL and NASCAR did full test sessions on the new track, why didnt the FIA do this for the teams?

think this doesnt happen in single tyre racing? look up goodyears problems in nascar..

michelin had no time to sort this because of the deliberate denial of pre race testing. perhaps indy should become a special case ( like it IS in american open wheel racing)

 

[PatrickL]

Well on Eurosport last night it was said otherwiise. The 2 first tyres set were not safe but the other ones (the ones that teams are using today in Jerez) would have been safe but had not the FIA marks on them.

 

[davefb]

Well on Eurosport last night it was said otherwiise. The 2 first tyres set were not safe but the other ones (the ones that teams are using today in Jerez) would have been safe but had not the FIA marks on them.

from autosport ( and forwarded to me )

Michelin to Continue Tyre Investigation

By Reuters Monday, 20 June 2005 10:25


French tyre manufacturers Michelin plan to continue with their investigation to find the reason for the problems that caused a fiasco at the United States Grand Prix.

The French company, which provide tyres to seven of the 10 F1 teams, instructed the teams not to start the race after two Toyotas had crashed in free practice on Friday because of sudden tyre failure.

As a result, only the six cars racing on Bridgestone tyres started the race at Indianapolis, which was won by World Champion Michael Schumacher, driving a Ferrari.

Michelin checked the tyres all night after Friday's crashes, conducting tests in the United States but also on similar tyres in France, before coming to the conclusion that they were not absolutely safe.

New tyres brought in by Michelin from France were then ruled out after tests by the company.

"The investigations are not over yet," Michelin's deputy director of competition Frederic Henry-Biabaud told Reuters on Monday. "We are aware that there is a problem but we have not yet precisely identified it."

Michelin said the race could have gone ahead with all cars had FIA accepted to build a temporary chicane before the slingshot final banked corner to reduce speeds and lessen the huge forces on the rear left tyres.

"We believe that it (building a chicane) was realistic and feasible but, for their own reasons, the sport's officials ruled it out," Henry-Biabaud said.

"It is too early to say what consequences this will have but our partners were very supportive and we are confident our decision will have been understood, especially in the United States, where safety is of paramount importance," he added.

Despite the fact that the teams using their tyres did not race, Michelin have no plans to quit Formula One.

"I really don't believe this will have an effect on Michelin's future in Formula One," said Henry-Biabaud.

The fiasco seriously damaged the image of Formula One, which presents itself as a showcase for high-tech excellence.

"We are convinced our decision was a professional and a responsible one in line with our policy of 100 percent safety," said Henry-Biabaud.

"We deeply regret what happened and we feel particularly sorry for the fans. We regret the consequences of this but we certainly do not regret our decision."

the bit about "New tyres brought in by Michelin from France were then ruled out after tests by the company." . I'm guessing they dont know yet...

 

[StefanS]

The first fans started sueing everybody

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

One thing: Michelin had safe tyres in time for the race. I was the tyre that were on the way to jerez and were sent in emergency to Indianapolis. But FIA under theses fucked rules refused to qualify the tyres. So saying that there were no other solution is really far fetched.

There was no solution under the rules. Even if these tyres had been working properly (and no one is sure of that it seems) any teams using them would have been disqualified by the stewards, maybe fined, given starting penalties or had championship & driver points taken away from them.

The FIA and the teams make the rules, the stewards enforce them. There is no provision for the FIA to go to the stewards of the race and say "can you please change the rules for this one race because of xyz". There is no provision for the stewards to change the rules on their own.

There is nothing that could have been done that wouldn't have brought howls of protest from the Bridgestone teams who had brought correctly working cars and wouldn't have breached the rules.

Nothing could have been done other than the cars with problem tyres to either drive more slowly or change tyres under grounds of safety (and take their chances with the stewards) as happens at every other race where tyre wear becomes an issue. Instead, the Michelin teams elected not to race, and in doing so they now have to take their chances with the disciplinary procedure for the rules they broke.

The single tyre rule was always going to cause this. It was predicted long before the season ever started, but those were the rules the FIA and the teams agreed *together*. There's no use the teams whining about it now because the majority of them got caught out on Michelins, instead of the few on Bridgestones as per the beginning of the year.

 

[PatrickL]

But BZB, teams agreed to not get points and so on. They just wanted to race with the safe set for the show, without getting any rewards at the end according to Franck Williams. But FIA refused that.