Esram in Scorpio as L3 cache in non-BC mode.

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Proelite, Jan 19, 2017.

  1. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    3,997
    Likes Received:
    2,806
    Spec#1 - No ESRAM in Scorpio
    Spec#2 - DCC in Scopio
    Spec#3 - Four times more L2 cache

    Most probably expected DCC in Scorpio, but now we know it's definitely in there and now we know there's no ESRAM.
     
    #21 mrcorbo, Jan 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017
  2. Ike Turner

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    2,106
    Likes Received:
    2,295
    All of those were a given unless the person expected it to based on the same GCN version as the Xbox One..
    Real specs leak would mean knowing which GCN gen its based on, which CPU architecture, amount of Ram, clock speeds, CU count etc....
    This is Eurogamer "leak" is nothing.
    especially if it's nothing but a comment on a paper available to MSDN subscribers (? maybe someone who has access to it can look for it an let us know... I'm no longer registered since 2012 so I can't unfortunately.)
     
  3. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    3,997
    Likes Received:
    2,806
    You know what thread you're in, right? One of those at least wasn't considered to be a given. And going from expected to known is still worth something, IMO.
     
  4. Allandor

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2013
    Messages:
    718
    Likes Received:
    694
    Yes, no specs in there. But at least it confirms that there is no more esram inside.

    HBM? but that would be a bit to cost intensive.
     
  5. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    12,677
    Likes Received:
    7,680
    If it's the same paper that's been available for half a year then someone should have noticed it already:

     
  6. Proelite

    Veteran Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,619
    Likes Received:
    1,105
    Location:
    Redmond
    Hmm, no L3 cache then.
     
  7. Cyan

    Cyan orange
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    9,579
    Likes Received:
    3,266
    I wonder who is the stool pigeon.:lol2: Maybe an infiltrated dev who wanted to be a Eurogamer journalist and his frustration led him to become a tattletale.
     
  8. Allandor

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2013
    Messages:
    718
    Likes Received:
    694
    4 times more L2. Is this including the L2 of the Jaguar cores or only the GPU caches?
     
  9. TheAlSpark

    TheAlSpark Moderator
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2004
    Messages:
    22,146
    Likes Received:
    8,533
    Location:
    ಠ_ಠ
    The latter since the doc focuses on the GPU.
     
  10. ProspectorPete

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2017
    Messages:
    414
    Likes Received:
    137
    I don't think there won't be ESRAM; ESRAM is essential to Xbox One; it's faster than other memory types and it has much lower latency. Latency is a key element to high performance, if there is no ESRAM then there won't be compatibility with Xbox One, it's that simple.

    There can be more ESRAM though, maybe 64MB or even 128MB. Zen would really shine with 128MB.
     
  11. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
    Legend Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2014
    Messages:
    13,758
    Likes Received:
    17,035
    Location:
    The North
    there's no esram on scorpio. this information has been leaked already
     
    RootKit likes this.
  12. ProspectorPete

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2017
    Messages:
    414
    Likes Received:
    137
    I read on the internet that it would be impossible to maintain BC with Xbox One without ESRAM, I'll look for the article
     
  13. Blazkowicz

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    5,607
    Likes Received:
    256
    Why not? it could use a Zen 4c/8t CPU block with L3 in there, although with no special sauce.
     
  14. Exophase

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    2,406
    Likes Received:
    430
    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    The low latency of the eSRAM is probably not that important for the sorts of code being executed on XB1's GPU. And even if it lent itself well to some algorithms I don't think developers will be that thrilled about code that doesn't work well on PS4.
     
  15. Allandor

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2013
    Messages:
    718
    Likes Received:
    694
    No it is not impossible.
    Everything you've done before is still possible at 4-times the base hardware.
    So if your memory-access is now a bit slower, the pure computation-speed of the 4x hardware absorbs those slower things. If you loose 2ms on slower memory (just as example) you get your work still done in a 16ms timeframe because the rest of your calculations is done in maybe 8-10ms.
    esram was also part of the normal virtual memory, so there is no problem here, too.

    The only thing that could get worse is memory contention. But we got just much higher bandwidth of main memory and bigger GPU caches. Maybe even bigger CPU-caches, so less main memory access is needed.
     
    RootKit, BRiT and DSoup like this.
  16. ProspectorPete

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2017
    Messages:
    414
    Likes Received:
    137
    That's easy to say now, but I believe before the leaks, nobody would believe that Xbox One "BC" would be possible without ESRAM. Many experts argued this.
     
  17. Gipsel

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,620
    Likes Received:
    264
    Location:
    Hamburg, Germany
    Not true. I (no real expert) and a lot of experts argued that the eSRAM ist just there for somewhat masking the low memory bandwidth of the XB1. With higher memory bandwidth in Scorpio it becomes utterly useless, especially as it is not exactly blazingly fast in the first place. And it can be easily accounted for in Scorpio as the eSRAM is part of the flat memory address space of the XB1. Games won't even notice it isn't there anymore. There is a very clear path for BC without the eSRAM. According to a lot of experts.
     
    RootKit and BRiT like this.
  18. ProspectorPete

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2017
    Messages:
    414
    Likes Received:
    137
    Sebbbi said this which I take to mean the ESRAM needs to be present for software to talk to it.*
    https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/1908974/
    * Added by mod as an explanation. Original content was a quote without personal context.
     
    #38 ProspectorPete, Feb 7, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2017
  19. sebbbi

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Messages:
    2,924
    Likes Received:
    5,296
    Location:
    Helsinki, Finland
    Emulating UMA on PC is difficult as graphics memory (discrete GPU) and system memory are fully separated. There is no fast direct link between them. However "emulating" UMA with another UMA architecture shouldn't be hard, as the memory could be simply mapped differently.
     
    Jay, ProspectorPete and BRiT like this.
  20. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    43,576
    Likes Received:
    16,034
    Location:
    Under my bridge
    That would theoretically be replaced with 'ESRAM area in RAM' in Scorpio. It doesn't have to physically be ESRAM to fit the requirements for use. RAM is accessed as an address. Think of it as a postal box. The dev says, "stick this buffer in Postal Box 124" and the system puts that in the third MB of ESRAM in XBOne, while instead in Scorpio puts that buffer in the 13425th MB of system RAM.

    As an aside for good Netiquette and discussion practice, you should provide a link to whomever you are quoting. I'll edit your post... If you're unhappy with my opening line of conversation, let me know what you want to change it to (assuming you haven't got edit privileges yet to change it yourself).
     
    #40 Shifty Geezer, Feb 7, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
    ProspectorPete and BRiT like this.
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...