end poverty - live 8 list

[Mendel]

http://www.live8live.com/list/

50,000 people are dying, needlessly, every day of extreme poverty.

At this year's G8 summit meeting, it is within your power to put an end to this tragedy. It is an extraordinary opportunity which it would be shameful to ignore. We urge you to take these 3 steps to make extreme poverty history...

1. double the aid sent to the world's poorest countries,
2. fully cancel their debts,
3. change the trade laws so that they can build their own future.

Please just sign your name and country, no need to put that email address there so you don't need to worry about spam or anything like that.

kthx.

Additionally, turn on your tv, the concerts are on!

 

[Mendel]

well? Did anybody sign?

 

[jvd]

no but i signed on the one list

 

[Humus]

50,000 people are dying, needlessly, every day of extreme poverty.

Actually, the number is somewhere between 20,000 and 30,000. Thing's been improved quite a bit over the last decades.

At this year's G8 summit meeting, it is within your power to put an end to this tragedy.

No it's not. G8 are the wrong ones to ask for a fix and they are pretty powerless when it comes to fixing this problem, unless invading poor countries to kick their shitty regimes out is the solution you're looking for.

 

[epicstruggle]

No it's not. G8 are the wrong ones to ask for a fix and they are pretty powerless when it comes to fixing this problem, unless invading poor countries to kick their shitty regimes out is the solution you're looking for.

You know, it might sound like im crazy, but i truely believe we need to do just that. Take parts of africa, and properly divide them based on culture/tribe/religion. Have a 10-20 year period where we slowly give back power back to the people as we teach them how to properly govern themselves. When someone oversteps themselves and tries to become a dictator, we should step in and clean house again. Outside of something like that i see very little hope for almost 90% of africa.

epic

 

[drspangle]

No it's not. G8 are the wrong ones to ask for a fix and they are pretty powerless when it comes to fixing this problem, unless invading poor countries to kick their shitty regimes out is the solution you're looking for.

You know, it might sound like im crazy, but i truely believe we need to do just that. Take parts of africa, and properly divide them based on culture/tribe/religion. Have a 10-20 year period where we slowly give back power back to the people as we teach them how to properly govern themselves. When someone oversteps themselves and tries to become a dictator, we should step in and clean house again. Outside of something like that i see very little hope for almost 90% of africa.

epic

98%

 

[jvd]

sad to say but mabye they will just kill each other off at some point

 

[epicstruggle]

sad to say but mabye they will just kill each other off at some point

aids is doing a bang up job already. almost 40%, of people living in the nation of botswana have aids/hiv. ~40%!!!!

epic

 

[Monty]

You know, it might sound like im crazy, but i truely believe we need to do just that. Take parts of africa, and properly divide them based on culture/tribe/religion. Have a 10-20 year period where we slowly give back power back to the people as we teach them how to properly govern themselves. When someone oversteps themselves and tries to become a dictator, we should step in and clean house again. Outside of something like that i see very little hope for almost 90% of africa.

epic

Totally agree with you there, but sadly its not going to happen anytime soon, especially with all the people upset about Iraq and what President Mugabe is getting away with right now.

I suppose the majority of westerners are content with that 10%

 

[Acert93]

No it's not. G8 are the wrong ones to ask for a fix and they are pretty powerless when it comes to fixing this problem, unless invading poor countries to kick their shitty regimes out is the solution you're looking for.

You know, it might sound like im crazy, but i truely believe we need to do just that. Take parts of africa, and properly divide them based on culture/tribe/religion. Have a 10-20 year period where we slowly give back power back to the people as we teach them how to properly govern themselves. When someone oversteps themselves and tries to become a dictator, we should step in and clean house again. Outside of something like that i see very little hope for almost 90% of africa.

epic

Who is "we".

Finding the correct form of government for a citizenship is not an easy process. African's are not from our Westernworld, imposing our ideals of society and government on them would be a mess.

The tyrants need to go--that is a given. But a democracy requires a semi-educated mass because a fledgling government is as much run from the bottom up as it is top down. That is why the Bush Administration felt Iraq was a prime suspect for democracy. Iraqis, at least before the GW1, could have been described as a middle class educated nation.

I am not saying that is good or bad (personally I would have thought more input from the people on how they should be ruled would have been nice... hopefully their "democracy" is flexible enough to allow such), but most African nations have no hope for such.

Afriaca's problems are many... if the problem was just proper government of the people I believe more would have solved their issues by now. But the problems are pretty deep seated... education, economics and dependancy on foreign nations, tribal and territorial issues, culteral divides, disease, and so forth. Basically Westerners found a primitive Africa hundreds of years ago, raped the land, and then left it for dead.

Africa could really use some cash resources like oil, but even stuff like that tends to benefit the rich and taking decades before the poor are qualified to begin reaping even meager rewards from such resources.

 

[epicstruggle]

Who is "we".

Lets start with those who broke/raped/stole/exploited africa:
UK, France, Germany, Belgium, Portugal, Spain, .... well most of EU.

Add the US and Russia for their use of africa during the cold war.

So you have enough countries to create an army and peacekeeping force to occupy and hopefully fix the problems created by the idiotic division of land.

epic

 

[Humus]

But a democracy requires a semi-educated mass because a fledgling government is as much run from the bottom up as it is top down.

How educated were the western countries when they became democratic? I would bet the average guy in Tanzania is about as educated as Swedish people were anno 1918. In fact, most parameters of the Swedish society of early 1900's more or less matched those of the average poor African country of today.

Afriaca's problems are many...

Certainly, but I would say the undemocratic regimes are the largest blocker. The freedom map of the world illustrates the point quite well:
http://www.freedomhouse.org/pdf_docs/research/freeworld/2004/map2004.pdf

 

[Humus]

aids is doing a bang up job already. almost 40%, of people living in the nation of botswana have aids/hiv. ~40%!!!!

epic

Speaking of Botswana, it's insteresting to note that while this country has been insanely hit by Aids they are still noting strong economic growth, despite that huge amount of HIV infected people. This is a country that has been democratic since 1967 and have had good economic policies. It's the most economically free country in Africa, and consequently one of the richest as well. It's a mid income country that is comparable to eastern Europe.

 

[epicstruggle]

aids is doing a bang up job already. almost 40%, of people living in the nation of botswana have aids/hiv. ~40%!!!!

epic

Speaking of Botswana, it's insteresting to note that while this country has been insanely hit by Aids they are still noting strong economic growth, despite that huge amount of HIV infected people. This is a country that has been democratic since 1967 and have had good economic policies. It's the most economically free country in Africa, and consequently one of the richest as well. It's a mid income country that is comparable to eastern Europe.

From wiki:

Botswana has a flourishing multiparty constitutional democracy. Each of the elections since independence has been freely and fairly contested and has been held on schedule. The country's small white minority and other minorities participate freely in the political process. There are three main rival parties and a number of smaller parties. In national elections in 2004, the Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) won 44 of 57 contested National Assembly seats, the Botswana National Front (BNF) won 12, and the Botswana Congress Party (BCP) won 1 seat. Individuals elected by the National Assembly hold an additional 4 seats; the ruling BDP currently holds all 4. The opposition out-polled the ruling BDP in most urban areas. The openness of the country's political system has been a significant factor in Botswana's stability and economic growth.

A great, free, uncorrupted democratic process is a great boost to having a good economy. No guarantee, but it certainly doesnt hurt. If more countries in africa would learn from them, we certainly would have less problems to deal with.

epic