Effects vs detail/animation vs detail/framerate vs detail

[inlimbo]

this is a spinoff from that other spinoff which is now closed, but here's the idea: where do your allegiances lie? or what are your preferred tradeoffs with regards to polygons, surface detail, lighting, effects, animation and framerate?

i come down hard on preferring animation and lighting to nearly everything else. i credit this to growing up as 2d made the slow transition to 3d and a background in illustration, so my tolerance for low-poly worlds and low-res textures is pretty high. case in point, i still think ocarina of time is one of the best looking games ever made, and whatever nostalgia i have for it doesn't carry over to that opinion.

as such, i'll always push for well realized, simplified worlds over bleeding edge visuals. and lighting and animation have more to do with how a game comes together in my eyes than raw detail. as long as the art is there, that's all i need. that extends to streaming, interactivity and play control.

so what say the rest of you?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

A good balance that suits the art-style, with a robust framerate that doesn't drop below 30. I wouldn't force higher framerates or better lighting or similar when sometimes those things aren't necessary for a particular title.

I will say that a lack of contact or ground shadows really bugs me. I'm quite shocked how often a character can be walking along without any lighting means to position them in the composition, not even a Nintendo-style shaded circle!

 

[inlimbo]

i start thinking about these tradeoffs and it makes me wish skyward sword was a pc release, models and textures unchanged, but given a completely streaming world, the best radiosity-approximation available in real-time without pre-processing and animation on the level of last guardian. i'd die for that, not that i don't love skyward sword as it is just fine.

 

[Nesh]

I believe it always depends on the game and the experience you are trying to offer.
A game such as Devil May Cry, driving simulation or fighting game, offer a much better experience with fast and stable framerates.

Some other titles dont necessarily need more than 30fps. In those cases where the highlight arent fast responses and reflexes but rather the whole beauty of detailed setting, and the cinematic pieces then its more important to put more resources to the visuals. The marginal gain in the experience from smoother framrates is less than more detailed visuals

There are those exceptions that enable fast framerates and good art like El Shaddai. But in such a case the art direction enables for better framerate and the beauty of the game relies solely on its simplicity and art. Some other more extreme cases like God of War 3 through smart design and art enable faster framerates and detailed visuals simultaneously with some trade-offs between framerate and visuals depending on the occasion.

It is always about the hardware limitations hence thats not a problem for PCs but a necessary trade off for consoles. A 60fps Gears of War 3 or Uncharted 3 would have been much better and thats what developers would have wished to be able to do, but sacrificing the visuals for framerate doesnt fit those titles where the visuals play a more powerful role in the experience. Similarly we would all prefer a much more detailed and realistic Tekken 6 but there we demand high steadier framerates. The developer has to choose which way to go

 

[inlimbo]

framerate is less of a concern for me, but let's take rage for example and assume that the game has to be 60fps no matter what. i'd take a hit in art assets and polycount for the sake of gameplay variety and interactivity along the lines of half-life 2. and also for a more realized world that's less of a showcase for its visuals.

to be fair, rage is a huge step over doom3 in design and i still enjoyed it a bunch once i got deeper. i also think it's pretty beautiful, as the texture variety means more to me than texture resolution or compression and macroblocking. i just wish they'd done so much more with it.

edit: should have been this bustling gunnm/thrash-metal inspired post-apocalyptic fantasy world, even if it meant someone might call them out having lower-poly characters or even lower-poly parts of the environment than they've already be called out for. instead it's a beautiful world, but just kind of arid in the end

 

[Scott_Arm]

Depends on the game. Shooters can definitely benefit from 60Hz. Driving sims benefit greatly. Getting close to 30Hz with few dropped or torn frames is a must. If you're dropping below the 20s often, and for more than a second, you've screwed up.

Beyond that, it's whatever suits the game. Different art styles may be more or less demanding on image quality issues like AA, texture filtering and resolution. I don't care if a game is sub-720p if the overall look of the game, and the gameplay, are not reliant on being able to see small detail.

I'd like to see more games push physics, character animation and AI before graphics. The Natural Motion stuff is pretty exciting to me. Really looking forward to seeing more approaches to AI and physics driven animation like Natural Motion's Euphoria vs traditional canned animation, or even blended animation. That said, Batman: Arkham City is a good example of a game that benefits from some amazing canned animation. Catwoman's fighting style is pure awesome.

 

[RobertR1]

Ideally:

Fast paced shooters and driving games = 60+
TPS shooters like Gears and Uncharted = 30+
RPG's = 30+
Score attach games like Rockband/Rez/etc = 60+

I'm sensitive to framerate and tearing so my tolerance for that is minimal. I will say that going back to PC gaming has been a blessing for framerates and tearings. Atleast on the PC I can do something about it (upgrade) but on the consoles, you're stuck with what you have.

I'll take art style, gameplay and story/immersion over graphics and features checkboxes anyday. Make a pretty game that runs or controls like crap and your end game is crap, regardless of how nice it looks in screenshots.

 

[NRP]

Amen to that. Gameplay trumps all imo. Of course, that's not to say graphics aren't important (they are), just not the most important to me personally.