Earth Defense Force 3 (360)

Awesome news on the price! I've been looking forward to this game for awhile now.

For the longest time I was seeing static screens and not really understanding the style of the game. After seeing the videos, I can't wait. =)
 
Damn those screenshots are amazing. It's like you are actually in the War of the Worlds movie remake by Spielberg.:oops:
 
A perfect example of how the overall visual impact of a very pretty looking game gets ruined because of very poor death animations and sh***y particles..

I think if you can look past that though the game looks like a blast..

Its a BIG shame about no online co-op though..
 
Well it ended up being called Earth Defence Force 2017.

As usual, the eurogamer review is awesome :)
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=74994
It's a classic Eurogamer review, in that it doesn't consider technical aspects at all. The reviewer enjoyed it, so gave a score based solely on that. I expect other sites to be a lot more technical and balanced, awarding scores for different aspects and getting a sort a grade at the end. Eurogamer is great in it's honesty, but puts a huge emphasis on the personal review. It's much more a colection of personal opinions than analytical evaluations. As long as you share the reviewer's tastes, I guess it's accurate!
 
It's a classic Eurogamer review, in that it doesn't consider technical aspects at all. The reviewer enjoyed it, so gave a score based solely on that. I expect other sites to be a lot more technical and balanced, awarding scores for different aspects and getting a sort a grade at the end. Eurogamer is great in it's honesty, but puts a huge emphasis on the personal review. It's much more a colection of personal opinions than analytical evaluations. As long as you share the reviewer's tastes, I guess it's accurate!

QFT

Game looks interesting but umm ... seems a bit high on the score in comparison to other ... games. :???:
 
QFT

Game looks interesting but umm ... seems a bit high on the score in comparison to other ... games. :???:
Exactly. Compared to R:FoM, which got a 6 from Eurogamer. The reviewer of EDF enjoyed it, and the whole review doesn't bother to touch any reason why to give it a high rating. You know he just liked it. The R:FoM reviewer didn't enjoy R:FoM, and listed a lot of gripes that many saw as unwarranted. Eurogamer's ratings are purely a 'How much did you like this game?' scale with no attempt to be analytical! The actual review writeups are then an attempt by the reviewer, sometimes, to justify the score they gave, normally considering humour as the most important content. Still good to read though!
 
well to be fair... the game retails for $39.99 (on purpose) and I think a little liberty is taken concerning the technical abilities of the game as well as the depth. It's simply a CLASSIC arcade shooter with a huge list of weapon upgrades and not trying to be anything more.

well except mindless fun. :smile: 9/10
 
well to be fair... the game retails for $39.99 (on purpose) and I think a little liberty is taken concerning the technical abilities of the game as well as the depth. It's simply a CLASSIC arcade shooter with a huge list of weapon upgrades and not trying to be anything more.

well except mindless fun. :smile: 9/10
And to be honest, this is the only metric that matters. Games are there to be fun, or otherwise entertaining. If it does that well, it should get high marks. The breakdown scoring is an analytical approach to try and determine how much entertainment a title offers regardless of personal tastes. A game of mediocre graphics and mediocre sound and poor story shouldn't, scientifically speaking, be as entertaining as a game that's great in all those things, as long as gameplay is good. But science doesn't really understand people well and has never been able to predict what people will and won't like.

These days demo's are the way to go. Reviews are just there as something to read - the 'girly gossip mags' for guys!
 
well to be fair... the game retails for $39.99 (on purpose) and I think a little liberty is taken concerning the technical abilities of the game as well as the depth. It's simply a CLASSIC arcade shooter with a huge list of weapon upgrades and not trying to be anything more.

well except mindless fun. :smile: 9/10

Agreed, the bang-for-buck is a fair way to judge a game. Sometimes I'd rather buy a 7/10 game for $20 instead of a 8/10 for $60. The burger king games were a great example, they were a steal at $4.
 
And to be honest, this is the only metric that matters. Games are there to be fun, or otherwise entertaining. If it does that well, it should get high marks. The breakdown scoring is an analytical approach to try and determine how much entertainment a title offers regardless of personal tastes. A game of mediocre graphics and mediocre sound and poor story shouldn't, scientifically speaking, be as entertaining as a game that's great in all those things, as long as gameplay is good. But science doesn't really understand people well and has never been able to predict what people will and won't like.

These days demo's are the way to go. Reviews are just there as something to read - the 'girly gossip mags' for guys!

To me the review should be a reflection of the quality of the product. "Fun/entertaining" is subjective. If the devs are aiming for the game to be Z, and they only made it to H, the score should reflect it. Factoring cost is an interesting metric but I don't think it should heavily weigh on the score. Many games come out at $60 these days that aren't worth $5. There are also cases where great games drop in price over time but it doesn't make the game any better than when it was $60.

If devs are aiming for a simple pick up and play game with low production value and a low price to match that is one thing, but if they are attempting to create a blockbuster cinematic experience they should be graded on how close they came to achieving this vision given their resources (console), and what others have achieved with the same resources.

In this case I can't say as I haven't played the game. It looked nice from the vids I've seen but for some reason it didn't strike me as a 9/10 game and the review text does not seem to back it up either so it really makes me question what the heck is going on over there at Eurogamer.
 
I don't really see the problem with the review.

The intent of the game is to put you in as utterly ridiculous situation where all hell breaks loose, and gives you the means to get out alive through stupidly powerful weapons. Not much more to it.
It's a simple game with simple goals, and a low price because of this. Therefore I feel it was rated accordingly.

At the end of the day the success of a game is how well it achieves it's own goals, and if the price of entry is worth the result. It doesn't really matter if those goals are to spruce up an old classic (eg an XBLA retro title) or to provide 100 hours of story (eg a zelda game). This game's goal seems to be to not take itself seriously, and by all accounts does very well.

Would better physics, framerate or graphics made it technically more competent? of course. But would it have made for a better game? the reviewer thinks not. It would have also pushed up the price.

The eurogamer review tells me everything I need to know. It's a fun game. Technically it may be lacking but that doesn't get in the way of the game, as it does not pretend to be great. Now Resistance, there is an example of a technically very competent game that just isn't that fun for a lot of people. Myself included.
In a lot of ways the two games are not all that different, it's just the latter takes itself far too seriously, and therefore is critiqued more seriously.
 
Nope, I don't see the problem either. I have read countless reviews from Keiron Gillen (he wrote for PC Gamer for several years), and i can't remember many that I didn't think were fair. For a person who rated Deus Ex as one of his favourite games, I'm actually surprised he liked something as simple as that, which I think says a lot. It doesn't have to be your genre of choice to appeal to you.

I personally think this looks like a really fun game. I've had some of my best times playing Serious Sam (another game that doesn't take itself seriously at all). I had far more fun than I ever had playing something like Quake 4, despite the latter's pedigree.
 
I don't really see the problem with the review.
Well there's really two different approaches to reviews - subjective and objective. The Eurogamer approach generally scores a game purely on whether they enjoyed it or not, which makes much of the value irrelevant other than entertainment. Every review could be distilled to a score and a summary of 'I liked it' or 'I didn't like it' or 'okay, but I liked such-and-such a game more'.

The IGN and GameStop and such-like take an analytical view that distances itself from absolute visceral response. It considers the different aspects to a game piecemeal and sums up a sort of quality metric. Their scores are thus more substantial. A 9/10 doesn't guarentee you'll enjoy a game particularly, but does mean you're buying a quality product. A game that's lacking in quality will score lower, though still may be enjoyable. With Eurogamer, an 9/10 means a reviewer enjoyed the game loads, though your tastes may differ and the quality of the title could be anywhere. A lower score means the reviewer didn't enjoy the game but doesn't tell you anything about it's quality or if you'd like the game too.

The whole reviews still are essential reading and describe the game, but the scores from Eurogamer and subjective reviews are pretty useless. No score is going to tell you if you like a game or not. However a 9/10 from IGN etc. at least tells you a game is high quality. A 9/10 from Eurogamer could mean the game is technically great or technically weak - it has no useful information.

Of course scores aren't what you should look at, but people do reference them. People can't help themselves when the world is described by numbers. It gives an easy way to compare things. Thus the numbers ought to try and be meaningful if they're going to be used that way.
 
Well there's really two different approaches to reviews - subjective and objective. The Eurogamer approach generally scores a game purely on whether they enjoyed it or not, which makes much of the value irrelevant other than entertainment. Every review could be distilled to a score and a summary of 'I liked it' or 'I didn't like it' or 'okay, but I liked such-and-such a game more'.

The IGN and GameStop and such-like take an analytical view that distances itself from absolute visceral response. It considers the different aspects to a game piecemeal and sums up a sort of quality metric. Their scores are thus more substantial. A 9/10 doesn't guarentee you'll enjoy a game particularly, but does mean you're buying a quality product. A game that's lacking in quality will score lower, though still may be enjoyable. With Eurogamer, an 9/10 means a reviewer enjoyed the game loads, though your tastes may differ and the quality of the title could be anywhere. A lower score means the reviewer didn't enjoy the game but doesn't tell you anything about it's quality or if you'd like the game too.

The whole reviews still are essential reading and describe the game, but the scores from Eurogamer and subjective reviews are pretty useless. No score is going to tell you if you like a game or not. However a 9/10 from IGN etc. at least tells you a game is high quality. A 9/10 from Eurogamer could mean the game is technically great or technically weak - it has no useful information.

Of course scores aren't what you should look at, but people do reference them. People can't help themselves when the world is described by numbers. It gives an easy way to compare things. Thus the numbers ought to try and be meaningful if they're going to be used that way.

This is the second time in two days I'm going to disagree with you, so I hope you don't think I'm singling you out ;) but...

I don't agree. I understand but I don't think something that is supposed to provide entertainment can truly be objectively rated. This isn't a car or a DVD player we're talking about, where you can dissect its qualities into sections and aggregate a score based on that. I've played plenty of games that are technically wonderful, but utter crap to actually play. Why should that technical impressiveness make any difference to the score? Personally I'd like to see numbers removed entirely, then perhaps people would actually read the reviews. Having a good score based on a set of factors won't tell you any more than a number plucked out of the air based on gut feeling like in this case, in fact it will tell you less, because it's letting factors that could be overlooked in the name of entertainment affect the score, so a game that is wonderful to play, but is a bit ropey to look at and the music isn't great will be marked down.

Maybe this is why I still buy print magazines and hardly ever read online reviews. I like it the way Eurogamer do it, the way a print magazine does it, because it isn't too rational.
 
I don't see how any review can be objective with regards to a final score. What is the correct way of weighting each individual element of a game? Answer: there isn't one. Deciding on a mathematical average, or setting certain 'score requirements' is no less arbitrarily than using the reviewers' actual gameplay experience to come to a score.

Games are ultimately rated according to how enjoyable they are to play – that isn't a direct function of how technically accomplished a title is, or how many bugs it has, or how detailed the graphics are. To make review scores a direct measure of these things (and try to institute some sort of arbitrary quality standard) is to take away their ability to accurately rate a game according to how entertaining it is to play. And that ultimately, is all that matters.

If a game suffers from serious technical shortcomings, but the game design is so incredible that it completely overshadows these shortcomings, should it not deserve to get a high score? To determine what a "high quality" game is you will always need to make a subjective assessment of the success of a game's mechanics, in terms of how entertaining they make the game. And that it is why there can be no objective measure of a game's quality, and why Eurogamer's stance is perfectly valid.
 
This is the second time in two days I'm going to disagree with you, so I hope you don't think I'm singling you out ;) but...

I don't agree. I understand but I don't think something that is supposed to provide entertainment can truly be objectively rated.
Actually I agree with you! As I said earlier, ulitimately games are about fun, so how much fun they are is, IMO, the only real point of a review. however some peole want reviews to do the breakdown thing.

Myself, I'm all in favour of losing scores, but that's not going to happen. Instead it'd be good to have every review give a breakdown score in the same categories

Visuals
Sound
Gameplay
Orignality
Fun
Value for Money (perhaps not a review score but calculate at the rankings site?)

and for places like GameRankings to ahve averages for all points. That way you can compare games on average Fun rating to see if lots of people like it or not, or see from polarized scores whether it's very much a specific taste. You'd need decent statistical tools, but seeing average score for Fun = 5, 100 votes for 0/10, 100 for 10/10, you'd know you'll either love the game or hate it in a way a ean average won't tell you. You'd also have the other metrics so when looking to buy a new game, first you can find the ones you'd expect to be fun from their scores, and then you can select from those the ones that satisfy other criteria. I myself am a graphics whore - I can't get into games without classy graphics. They don't have to be very advanced, but the need quality. Retro games have no appeal for me, whereas proper remakes can. Thus I want to know when looking up games those with good graphics, because that's important to me. A proper review metrics system will let me find that. After finding games that score well, you'd then read a few reviews to get an idea of what they're like in depth, and really be able to make informed selections.

That's not how it is though, and if you're going to have scores, totally random values don't help anything. There's no point one mag scoring solely on fun, and another scoring on technical achievements, to produce an average of disparate info. That'd be like one score for people being 2x their IQ, and another being height in centimetres, and people using an average score of the two to decide who to employ!
 
If a game suffers from serious technical shortcomings, but the game design is so incredible that it completely overshadows these shortcomings, should it not deserve to get a high score? To determine what a "high quality" game is you will always need to make a subjective assessment of the success of a game's mechanics, in terms of how entertaining they make the game. And that it is why there can be no objective measure of a game's quality, and why Eurogamer's stance is perfectly valid.
As well as my above posts explaining my opinions, I'll add that this idea of yours would doom the game industry. If all that's rated is fun, games won't score any more highly on technical achievement, at which point why bother to get the best looking, 60fps game you can? You could just settle for a technically inferior game. Consider buying a car (our favourite console analogy!). If you're buying it for fun to drive, that'd be the only score worth considering, right? But also important, even if it's not the key factor as fun to drive, is what the car looks like, what it's economy is, what capacity it has, annoying aspects to the car, etc. Thus when reviewing two cars, both 10/10 on fun factor, the one that's also great to look at, economical, and fits the kids as well, should score notable higher than the one that's ugly as sin, does 3 MPG, seats two people at best and has lots of annoying issues. They can't both be awarded a 10/10 score and be presented as equal choices.

Furthermore fun is subjective. A high fun rating from one person doesn't equal a high fun rating from another. We actually don't need fun ratings to tell us about a game these days, because we have demos. We can see for ourselves whether we enjoy it. Thus why have an average subjective score for fun as the only GameRankings metric? Instead, by going with a technical average, the GameRankings score will actually mean something. A 9/10 means a technically good game. Download it and see if you like it. A 5/10 means a technical dog. Perhaps one to miss. Even though you might enjoy it, the developers need to lift their game rather than be content to produce low-grade products. Then again you might want to check it out.

Ultimately the whole single-score system is floored, and opinions will surely remain polarized. Hopefully I've at least explained the other side's view so people can understand it!
 
As well as my above posts explaining my opinions, I'll add that this idea of yours would doom the game industry. If all that's rated is fun, games won't score any more highly on technical achievement, at which point why bother to get the best looking, 60fps game you can?
Ok, firstly, I really don't like the word 'fun', which implies a specific kind of superficial gratification, when in fact there a huge number of ways in which we can be entertained, on an intellectual emotional and psychological level. Is a game fun if you're scared, angry or sad? Yet these kinds of emotional responses are essential part of entertainment. Now, my argument is that this broader sense of the word entertainment is what we should use as the sole criterion for judging a game's overall worth. We play games for no other purpose. So if graphics don't contribute to the entertainment value of a game then they're completely irrelevant, and can be ignored.

However, the reason this strikes you as crazy is because graphics do contribute to a game's entertainment value, acting as a method of drawing the player into a game, ensuring he is immersed in fully cohesive world, and rewarding him visually for completing objectives. So of course they should be taken account into account in the scoring process! But only to the extent that they actually enhance the experience itself. Who cares if graphics are made more technically advanced if that doesn't benefit the player?

Rating graphics according to this metric helps developers make better games, rather than better tech demos, it helps them realise the role graphics play in rewarding the player - it makes them realise the importance of good art, of effective visual communication. Finally, it stops them from falling back entirely on graphics and ignoring the core of the experience - the gameplay. That can only be a good thing.

But graphics will never take a back seat precisely because they're used by developers to differentiate their games and attract interest. If a company announces a new game and posts a few mediocre screenshots then nobody will care, but if those screenshots showcase an unprecedented level of graphical detail then suddenly the entire gaming community will be interested in that game. So forgetting about graphics is sure fire way to doom your game to obscurity, and as long as the industry remains screenshot focused, that's not going to change.

Could just settle for a technically inferior game. Consider buying a car (our favourite console analogy!). If you're buying it for fun to drive, that'd be the only score worth considering, right? But also important, even if it's not the key factor as fun to drive, is what the car looks like, what it's economy is, what capacity it has, annoying aspects to the car, etc. Thus when reviewing two cars, both 10/10 on fun factor, the one that's also great to look at, economical, and fits the kids as well, should score notable higher than the one that's ugly as sin, does 3 MPG, seats two people at best and has lots of annoying issues. They can't both be awarded a 10/10 score and be presented as equal choices.
Right, because cars have a specific purpose, to get from A to B, and so must be rated in terms of that purpose. It's no different for games, which are a form of entertainment, not a functional tool.

Furthermore fun is subjective. A high fun rating from one person doesn't equal a high fun rating from another.
Of course, and that's true for any quality rating. You will never escape subjectivity. What measure do you use to rate how technically accomplished a game is?

We actually don't need fun ratings to tell us about a game these days, because we have demos. We can see for ourselves whether we enjoy it. Thus why have an average subjective score for fun as the only GameRankings metric? Instead, by going with a technical average, the GameRankings score will actually mean something. A 9/10 means a technically good game. Download it and see if you like it. A 5/10 means a technical dog. Perhaps one to miss. Even though you might enjoy it, the developers need to lift their game rather than be content to produce low-grade products. Then again you might want to check it out.
And you could equally argue, why have reviews to rate the technical aspects of a game when you can simply play the demo? The point however is that demos still don't allow you to experience the whole game, and not every game will be released in demo form.

So to get a better idea of how a game's mechanics function, you're going to have rely on the review. And if all the review does is tell you how technically advanced a game is then it's completely worthless as an assessment of whether you should buy the game.

Furthermore, I think the whole idea of coming to some sort of objective rating of a games' technology is equally suspect. How does level size trade off against lighting detail or animation? Do you consider art? Does it matter if a game looks absolutely horrific because the art is terrible, if the underlying technical base is great? Will the player experience the terrible graphics and think 'damn these graphics suck buts it's no big deal because the game is running on the Doom 3 engine, which I know is very solid?'.

Ultimately the whole single-score system is floored, and opinions will surely remain polarized. Hopefully I've at least explained the other side's view so people can understand it!
I can agree with using reviews to rate individual elements of a game like sound or technology, but at the end of the day the only way of combining those elements into a rating that makes sense is to ask 'how entertaining does this make the game'.
 
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