http://www.nvidia.com/object/nzone_doom3_home.html
Not a big supprise, but a little dissapointing anyway.
Not a big supprise, but a little dissapointing anyway.
Doom3 a TWIMTBP game?
- Thread starter Ali
- Start date
Richthofen
Newcomer
Ali said:
why? was HL2 dissapointing too?
So far, YES!!!!! :?Richthofen said:
{Sniping}Waste
Regular
Funny that they bring up DOOM 1. If yal don;t know, John Carmak comes from Garland TX the same city i live and rased in. You can go back farther to wolfingstin 3d was his first thing he put out that got him known. For the longist time he had the only yellow doge viper in Garland so its easy to spot him. He is nice to the kids too like invites youth groups like the Boy Scouts to let them look around and to answer questons personly.
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
Legend
digitalwanderer said:So far, YES!!!!! :?Richthofen said:
Come on! HL2 has supplied massive entertainment what with the movies, the rubbishing of Nvidia cards, the code theft conspiracies, the code leak, etc, and we've not even played the game yet!
MrGaribaldi
Regular
Richthofen said:
Since it's not released, I can't really say...
But compared to what Nvidia is currently offering, then I must say ATI had the better deal, since with them you at least got a voucher for the game whereas with Nvidia all you get is a sticker saying iD promises the game will run on the GF FX series...
But at least it's worth a chuckle
Now, if Nvidia were to announce that all cards with this sticker includes either a voucher or the entire game, then I'd say they're even with ATI when it comes to bundling
Fair point, I gotta admit I've spent more than a couple of fun filled nights arguing/theorizing/bsing about it.Bouncing Zabaglione Bros. said:
Funny thing about D3, I really think it will ship when the NV40 does, I think iD has been holding it back for the launch.
Richthofen
Newcomer
But compared to what Nvidia is currently offering, then I must say ATI had the better deal, since with them you at least got a voucher for the game whereas with Nvidia all you get is a sticker saying iD promises the game will run on the GF FX series...
But at least it's worth a chuckle
Now, if Nvidia were to announce that all cards with this sticker includes either a voucher or the entire game, then I'd say they're even with ATI when it comes to bundling
well maybe they do that - maybe not.
Right now the ATI vapoware voucher is worth nothing. They are flying in mass quantities off shelves @ ebay.
You don't think you got that voucher for free do you?
Of course you payed for it because without it ATI could have sold their products for a little less.
And now the worse side of the story is - this voucher is not included in all ATI based graphics cards sold.
I would say this special HL2 deal is the way you should not do it.
Why HL2 got delayed doesn't matter here. It's vapoware and ATI has to take responsibility for it. They were pretty damn fast with beta benchmarks and crappy pr meetings with gabe N (shaders day anyone?) and all people are holding in their hands is a little piece of paper worth nothing at the moment.
Doomtrooper
Veteran
Richthofen said:
As Dave would say, that's pretty blinkered logic. How is it ATI's fault that Valve's delayed their game? It's ATI's responsibility to honor their vouchers once the software is available and that's about it. Did it hurt sales? Without a doubt, had HL2 shipped last fall it would've been an absolute PR bonanaza for them because it would've been the first major PC title available with heavy use of 2.0 shaders. But that didn't happen and people are left holding pieces of paper.
As for pretty fast with beta benchmarks and "crappy" PR meetings, didn't nVidia arrange for Doom 3 benchmarks with certain sites for NV35's launch? And wasn't those benchmarks available months before ATI's shader day? Seems like someone else was even faster getting beta benchmarks out to the public.
It just occured to me that a voucher system for an upcoming game may actually be more benficial to the end user than the vendor than a shipping game in the box.
Lets take a hypothetical scenario (although it might not be, I don't know) that D3 is going to be bundled with NV40's but thats not available until later in may, however the D3 game is available in April - how many of the NV40 potential customers are going to have already bought D3 by that time? Is that going to be an additional selling point for them? Conversly, how many pople have gone out and bought HL2 so far, no-one other than those ATI owners?
Frankly, I'm beginning to think that a voucher system would be far better. I don't know how many reviews I've done where a thoroughly pointless game bundle is included which includes games that are old / you wouldn't play / are crap - wouldn't it be better for these vendors to offer vouchers for titles soon to be released? The users will still get the benefits of the board now and will get an extra freebie new title once its released (if if they have moved on to another board by that time).
Lets take a hypothetical scenario (although it might not be, I don't know) that D3 is going to be bundled with NV40's but thats not available until later in may, however the D3 game is available in April - how many of the NV40 potential customers are going to have already bought D3 by that time? Is that going to be an additional selling point for them? Conversly, how many pople have gone out and bought HL2 so far, no-one other than those ATI owners?
Frankly, I'm beginning to think that a voucher system would be far better. I don't know how many reviews I've done where a thoroughly pointless game bundle is included which includes games that are old / you wouldn't play / are crap - wouldn't it be better for these vendors to offer vouchers for titles soon to be released? The users will still get the benefits of the board now and will get an extra freebie new title once its released (if if they have moved on to another board by that time).
DaveBaumann said:
Do you mean something like getting a booklet with say 10 vouchers for different games. The end user fills in a space for their cards serial number on say 3 vouchers, and sends them away to the IHV. They then get those games they picked.
This would mean the end user gets to pick what they want, then the IHV only has to pay for the games they supply, and you have to possiblility of including games that havent been released yet.
The IHVs would also propbably save a bit of money, as many people would never get around to sending off the vouchers.
Off topic anyway.
Also to Richthofen about Doom3 being dissapointing because its a TWIMTBP game. As far as I know ATIs get in the game campaign is all about getting devs to code to DX9, which helps everyone, and doesnt hurt anyone. BUT, its been proven that TWIMTBP games sometimes penalise non nvidia cards on purpose (see that golf game (links, Tiger wood, ?) that didnt render the water correctly on ATI cards unless the device ID was changed).
Also, it now means we will have to question what comes from id/Carmak in regards to how different GPUs react to the engine. Ive always in the past trusted JC to be up front and honest in what he says. I think I will still be able to trust him, but Ill have a nagging doubt now.
Ali
StealthHawk
Regular
MrGaribaldi said:
Everyone sure seems to think that Doom3 will be physically bundled with NV40 cards. Even that the NV40 launch was pushed back a little to wait for Doom3 to ship, just so this could happen. Which seems crazy to me, who knows if Doom3 will actually be ready by a certain date set in stone, unless there are behind the scenes things happening. Alternatively, there can also be some problems like Dave mentioned.
On a side note, I wonder what that nZone page will look like once NV40 comes out. Unless they keep the GeForceFX moniker, one would think iD and NVIDIA would be promoting The Next Big Thing, not some family of cards that's going to be eclipsed soon.
I agree with your voucher vision, Dave, but I think the reasonable limit between hardware and software launch is maybe two months, max. Enough to keep it in sight, and not so much as to make short-sighted people consider buying a slightly cheaper card instead.
I think the checklist voucher is a better idea. People get a selection of games, card companies may even get some people who don't order the games (kind of like rebate logic), and the AIBs get a customer list ("free" games are a mighty incentive to fill out the equivalent of a warranty card). IIRC, some companies did this. Maybe it didn't work out so well b/c the bundle wasn't an immediate gratification, or it was tougher to get multiple deals for recent games rather than one big deal for one new game.
I think the checklist voucher is a better idea. People get a selection of games, card companies may even get some people who don't order the games (kind of like rebate logic), and the AIBs get a customer list ("free" games are a mighty incentive to fill out the equivalent of a warranty card). IIRC, some companies did this. Maybe it didn't work out so well b/c the bundle wasn't an immediate gratification, or it was tougher to get multiple deals for recent games rather than one big deal for one new game.
WRT to the voucher thing, its not something I've put much thought into, just something that occured to me seeing as most of the time the game bundles that come with AIB boards are pointless.
Anyway, on these marketting campaigns. I think ATI really has two: "Get In the Game" and now "ATI Approved". Get in the game is really about some marketting element that they have going on, as with the bundling in HL2. ATI approved is more about making sure the title works on ATI boards before it ships, and has very little lead time to have any great impact on development - this is what I recieved last week:
As for getting Dev's to use DX9, that is just a part of everyday dev rel.
TWIMTBP seems to span a lot more. Their PR outwardly say that its only about making sure it works out of he box, which in many cases it is, however it also seems to span the cases where they have joint promotional/bundling activities and the cases where they are funding certain development elements of the title to include GeForce specific elements (STALKER for instance). Naturally, they will have their standard dev rel function as well.
Anyway, on these marketting campaigns. I think ATI really has two: "Get In the Game" and now "ATI Approved". Get in the game is really about some marketting element that they have going on, as with the bundling in HL2. ATI approved is more about making sure the title works on ATI boards before it ships, and has very little lead time to have any great impact on development - this is what I recieved last week:
As for getting Dev's to use DX9, that is just a part of everyday dev rel.
TWIMTBP seems to span a lot more. Their PR outwardly say that its only about making sure it works out of he box, which in many cases it is, however it also seems to span the cases where they have joint promotional/bundling activities and the cases where they are funding certain development elements of the title to include GeForce specific elements (STALKER for instance). Naturally, they will have their standard dev rel function as well.
The big negative about the whole voucher/coupon thing though is that it can take 4-6 weeks to get the game if you can't download it (there are still plenty of dial-up users out there). With Half-Life2 and Doom3 in particular, I doubt many people will want to wait that long.
Kinda curious that when ATI announced the Half Life 2 deal all these wonderful news sources could only talk about the apparent $$$ Millions ATI paid Valve, yet we don't get anything similar with this one, instead we get the like of NVNEW's telling us "This marks a great achievement for GeForce FX GPUs".
Richthofen
Newcomer
John Reynolds said:
Doesn't really matter. They payed Valve for all that crap they pulled especially Gabe. They included a voucher and were happy to take advantage of the positive effects of this story.
Well now the game is deleyed and they will get the negative side of the story and they deserve it. They liked side A and now fell happy to take advantage of side B - frustrated customers with a worthless peace of paper.
Of course Nvidia does the same and i will be the first to blame them if Doom3 doesn't make it within an acceptable timeframe after NV40 launch.
But at the moment it looks like Doom3 will be available pretty soon.
And ATI? well that is the risk they took while choosing this path and now they will have to live with the outcome or negative PR. Again they deserve it.
