Don't think you can loose weight?

[Diplo]

Diplo, I disagree on the bread thing. For years my diet consisted of sandwiches/toast on a regular basis. Sandwiches with mayo, butter and all sorts of fattening condiments. Once you stop eating bread it becomes less interesting to have these as well. Ergo you stop eating bread you'll stop eating a pile of other problem foods.

Yep, that is a very good point. Though you could probably extend that to cover all flour based foodstuffs, such as cakes, doughnuts, pastries etc. Certainly if cutting out on one helps you to eat less of then other then that's not a bad thing. I just wanted to point out that there is nothing inately wrong with bread that it will make you gain more weight than any other foodstuff of a similar calorific value.

There is nothing in bread thats all that important that cannot be picked up from eating a high fiber diet IMO.

This is certainly true. However, you'll often find that people who give up one food stuff often fail to replace it with another of similair nutritional value. Wholemeal bread is a good source of fibre as well as certain vitamins (nearly all flour eaten in the West is fortified with thiamin (vitamin B1) and riboflavin (B2) ). If you do give it up then make sure you still get an adequate supply of these vitamins and fibre.

I can't back up my argument with any technical evidence regarding the meat issue. All I know is that after an extended period of beans and veg I had less energy.

This probably goes back to the issue of not replacing one foodstuff with one that gives the equivalent nutrients. You were probably reliant on meat for a large proprtion of your protein and iron and didn't replace this adquately. However, there are plenty of non-meat foodstuffs that are high in protein and/or iron. Have a read of http://www.vnv.org.au/Nutrition/Protein.htm It doesn't matter where you get something from as long as you get it!

Also meat has a high fat content and this is a stored energy that can be metabolized easier if meat is eaten by itself I believe, so your assertion that there is no energy source in meat is incorrect IMO. Fat = energy.

Well, I didn't mean to say there is no energy source in meat - my point was that there is no energy source that is specific to meat. Any energy you get from meat you can get from other sources. Fat is also not a good energy source - it is a last resource source. The body prefers to burn carbs, which are the easiest form of energy to metabolise. Fat is only burned once you have burned of everything else (which is why no amount of excercise will make you loose weight if you are still consuming more calories than you are burning).

There might be something to the idea that proteins in meat are important when changing your intake like I have. It is dangerous IMO to cut out meat entirely because once you start too loose weight quickly your body will use muscle for energy as well and this is not desirable.

Meat isn't the only source of protein, though. Infact, it's not even the preferred one. Read any body building site and you'll see that nearly all the protein supplements are based around whey (from milk), egg white or soya. Have a read of http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/protein/whey-protein-supplements.htm Oh, and Carl Lewis (seven-time Olympic gold-medallist sprinter) trained on a completely vegan diet. He did OK

Also, your body will only start using muscle for energy once ALL body fat has been burned, and not before. You have to starve yourself for a long time for this to happen.

 

[Sabastian]

Also, your body will only start using muscle for energy once ALL body fat has been burned, and not before. You have to starve yourself for a long time for this to happen.

I'm not so sure of that. On me fat is not evenly distributed. I think localized fat (within the muscle like when you can look at a steak and see the "marble" of fat.) will be used before external fat. After that I believe weaker muscle fibers will break and be used as a source of energy which is something you want to avoid. The proteins in meat that repair muscle and help to build more muscle help to prevent weaker muscle fibers from deterioration. I think that you are right to a degree on that but limited cannibalization occurs before all fat is gone. I think the idea that all fat must be gone first is somewhat of a generalization or rule of thumb. I'm onto other sources of protein though. Tofu is a great replacement for hamburger in chili while it doesn't look the same it tastes great because it takes on the flavor of everything else. Tofu by itself though is.. quite bland. I don't care though if I can still eat meat and loose weight then that is just what I'll do.

 

[zurich]

Hrm, is a mesomorph an actual label? I've never heard that before but whatever the case if the shoe fits wear it. Yeah I can gain weight easy enough. Never actually lost 25 pounds of weight before though so it is quite a change really. There were times in the past where in the course of a week I had lost 10 pounds but that was a result of severe stress that caused me to have a lesser appetite sometimes forgetting to eat even until late in the day. This time around the loss of weight is intentional though.

Really? Well I guess being a genetically blessed mesomorph..

Generally speaking people will fall into one of these catagories:

Ectomorph - Tall, lanky, thin, "hard gainer", high metabolism
Endomorph - Short, rotund, has trouble keeping weight off
Mesomoph - Naturally athletic, easy to put weight on/take it off, gets results quickly

 

[sytaylor]

So what are you if you stay about the same weight unless you train really hard, but if you don't you never get "skinny" as such?

 

[Sabastian]

Mesomoph - Naturally athletic, easy to put weight on/take it off, gets results quickly

Yes, that sounds right but I never realized this before. I might start to work out in the near future to see what I can do with myself. I suspect I will have noticeable results after about a month of training. Particularly where I am already toned up nicely. When I was a boy I was exceptionally physically fit and also worked out a lot. Then I hit puberty and things got put on the back burner but I was always "in shape" even when I didn't work out.

BTW did a search on mesomorph.. seems I fit the bill exactly.

The mesomorph has well-defined muscles and large bones. The torso tapers to a relatively narrow and low waist. The bones and muscles of the head are prominent. Features of the face are clearly defined, such as cheek bones and a square, heavy jaw. The face is long and broad, and is cubicle in shape. Arms and legs are developed and even the digits of the hand are muscled.

Other Traits of the Mesomorph

The skin of the mesomorph is thick and the mesomorph tans well. The hair is heavy in texture.

Don't know about the large bones and the hair but pretty much everything else is right on target. Thanks for your mentioning the affair. I just learned something about myself.

 

[John Reynolds]

I don't fit into any of those categories. I'm somewhat tall, very stocky, and gain weight quite easily, and lose weight with some difficulty. I've gone from 295 down to 195 in a little over two years, but recently 'fell off the train' and gained a bit back so I'm at 210 right now. The weight loss was accomplished by drastically changing my eating habits (cut out all pop, fast food during lunches, etc.) and exercising. Working out in the morning has a dramatic impact on my energy levels throughout the day.

 

[Sabastian]

I don't fit into any of those categories. I'm somewhat tall, very stocky, and gain weight quite easily, and lose weight with some difficulty. I've gone from 295 down to 195 in a little over two years, but recently 'fell off the train' and gained a bit back so I'm at 210 right now. The weight loss was accomplished by drastically changing my eating habits (cut out all pop, fast food during lunches, etc.) and exercising. Working out in the morning has a dramatic impact on my energy levels throughout the day.

Yeah apparently after looking around a bit many people are some combination of the three. Which kind of suggests that the categories are not an exact science. But in my case it certainly seems I fit the bill.

 

[Diplo]

Ectomorph - Tall, lanky, thin, "hard gainer", high metabolism
Endomorph - Short, rotund, has trouble keeping weight off
Mesomoph - Naturally athletic, easy to put weight on/take it off, gets results quickly

Don't forget:

Xenomorph - Large head, sharp teeth and blood with the consistency of acid.

 

[[maven]]

Working out in the morning has a dramatic impact on my energy levels throughout the day.

Honest question:
In a positive or in a negative way? I have tried a few times to move my swimming practice in the wee morning hours and usually ended up being exceptionally tired at work (not immediately but later in the afternoon)...

 

[John Reynolds]

]
Honest question:
In a positive or in a negative way? I have tried a few times to move my swimming practice in the wee morning hours and usually ended up being exceptionally tired at work (not immediately but later in the afternoon)...

In a good way. If you're tired in the afternoon, examine your eating habits. What you eat and, perhaps more importantly, when. I eat a power bar usually around 3 (Zone Perfect chocolate peanut butter, 21g of carbs and 16g of protein).

 

[zurich]

Mesomoph - Naturally athletic, easy to put weight on/take it off, gets results quickly

Yes, that sounds right but I never realized this before. I might start to work out in the near future to see what I can do with myself. I suspect I will have noticeable results after about a month of training. Particularly where I am already toned up nicely. When I was a boy I was exceptionally physically fit and also worked out a lot. Then I hit puberty and things got put on the back burner but I was always "in shape" even when I didn't work out.

BTW did a search on mesomorph.. seems I fit the bill exactly.

The mesomorph has well-defined muscles and large bones. The torso tapers to a relatively narrow and low waist. The bones and muscles of the head are prominent. Features of the face are clearly defined, such as cheek bones and a square, heavy jaw. The face is long and broad, and is cubicle in shape. Arms and legs are developed and even the digits of the hand are muscled.

Other Traits of the Mesomorph

The skin of the mesomorph is thick and the mesomorph tans well. The hair is heavy in texture.

Don't know about the large bones and the hair but pretty much everything else is right on target. Thanks for your mentioning the affair. I just learned something about myself.

Yeah my friend is a textbook mesomorph and was always naturally fit. However about a year ago he decided to really get into working out (well, as much as a weight set at home and a tub of protein power can do), and has had really noticable, astronomic results. This is compared to a mutual friend of ours who has spent a fortune at the gym and on suplements, etc., and is still a scrawny shit.

That said, I'd suggest that if you have the proper (mesomorph) body-type, then run with it!!!

 

[Sabastian]

Yeah my friend is a textbook mesomorph and was always naturally fit. However about a year ago he decided to really get into working out (well, as much as a weight set at home and a tub of protein power can do), and has had really noticable, astronomic results. This is compared to a mutual friend of ours who has spent a fortune at the gym and on suplements, etc., and is still a scrawny shit.

That said, I'd suggest that if you have the proper (mesomorph) body-type, then run with it!!!

Well I'm not all together sure about it. I mean I think it would require some advice particularly with the protein supplements and how exactly I should proceed with weight training. All I know is that it seems that I can loose/gain weight easily and a lot of the characteristics of the mesomorph seem to be a near perfect fit. I am not a horribly large person I mean I am only average weight and height for a male my age. But when I did a search on google I found images of the three varieties you are talking about and indeed I look exactly like the centre one in the image which is purportedly as "mesomorph".

I think though I would gain some weight if I were to quit smoking that would be an excellent time to begin working out I figure. Dear god, that would require some real self control.

EDIT: This is an image of me @ about 175.

 

[thop]

Lowcarb is the new big buzzword. We did have Lowfat already, wonder if Lowprots is the next. Then we'll probably have Lowwater and then Lowair.

 

[thop]

Oh, and Carl Lewis (seven-time Olympic gold-medallist sprinter) trained on a completely vegan diet. He did OK

Yeah that's what he says. He forgot to mention the steroids and all the medicine he pumped in his body though.

 

[digitalwanderer]

I think though I would gain some weight if I were to quit smoking that would be an excellent time to begin working out I figure. Dear god, that would require some real self control.

The nicotine patch is your friend and I highly recomend it to help ya quit, it helped me more than once. It's an easy way to wean yourself off of the habit while still keeping a nicotine rush, once you're used to not smoking it's easy to wean yourself off the patch by stepping down the dosage.

It's also well worth it. Not only is smoking not good for your health, but I never realized what a social imposition/big chunk of me time it was.

I find that working out actually helps keep me off of the smokes. Anytime I want a cigarette I just go and hit the bowflex 'til I can't hit it no more and by the time I'm done I don't want to smoke anymore.

 

[zurich]

I think though I would gain some weight if I were to quit smoking that would be an excellent time to begin working out I figure. Dear god, that would require some real self control.

The nicotine patch is your friend and I highly recomend it to help ya quit, it helped me more than once. It's an easy way to wean yourself off of the habit while still keeping a nicotine rush, once you're used to not smoking it's easy to wean yourself off the patch by stepping down the dosage.

It's also well worth it. Not only is smoking not good for your health, but I never realized what a social imposition/big chunk of me time it was.

I find that working out actually helps keep me off of the smokes. Anytime I want a cigarette I just go and hit the bowflex 'til I can't hit it no more and by the time I'm done I don't want to smoke anymore.

Or quit cold turkey like a real man!

 

[Leto]

Looks like I'm the mesomorph. Maybe I should hit the gym :/

 

[Sonic]

You can be short and still be an ectomorph.

One word of advice. If you are trying to increase muscle mass by a large amount then you will need to incorporate a lot ogood carbs into your diet. I have switch to a 40/40/20 intake and have seen great results so far. That and my new HST cycle seems to have gotten me out of the rut I was in.

 

[Sabastian]

RESERECTED...

Well, I went as low as 155 and began to eat food that had more energy.(Fat, sugars etc.) I found it very easy to go back to 160. A careful balance should easily keep my weight @160.(my ideal body weight supposedly.) The discovery that I can easily lose and gain weight though was a bit of a shock. I can gain weight simply by eating foods that have more energy/carbs and lose weight by eating low carb foods. The realization that some people can lose weight easily and gain it likewise kind of puts a damper on the idea that this diet is unusual. I always kind of had an idea that some people can't gain weight and similarly that some can't lose weight but the idea that some can gain and lose weight easily was a revelation to me. Anyhow I feel great and am confident that it will be easy to stay my current weight. It feels weird though around the edge of my rib cage when I sit unless I sit with a more upright posture which is actually a positive development. All over I have considerably less fat my old lady is horribly impressed. I can only sympathize with the people whom are not able to gain/lose weight as easily. On that note I apologize for bringing this thread from the grave.