Dirty tricks in graphics

Kaotik

Kaotik

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I thought, with the new Batman-issues and all, that it could be interesting to dig up all those nasty, more or less well kept dirty secrets in games, where features are disabled from one brand based on device/vendor id's or similar, even though the cards would be capable of using those features.

I have two incidents which pop up to my mind quickly:
- Good old Tiger Woods during the R3x0/NV3x days, where water shader and possibly other features were disabled on Radeons, could be "fixed" with 3DAnalyze using nVidia vendor/device id's
- Hellgate London DX9-mode, disables PCF(?) or something similar shadow filtering on Radeon HDs, again "fixable" with nVidia vendor/device id's
 
Tomb Raider Angel of Darkness rings a bell for some reason... maybe I don't want to remember. :???: :LOL:
 
One should ask as well, were any of these dirty tricks favoring ATI cards? :)
 
Malo said:
One should ask as well, were any of these dirty tricks favoring ATI cards? :)
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If you go back as far as the GeForce FX series... maybe :)
I mean, games like Half Life 2 would run in PS1.4-mode on FX by default, and PS2.0 on Radeons.
However, turning PS2.0 on with FX cards wasn't really doing them any favours, speedwise anyway :)
 
There was the assassins creed incident were dx10.1 features were allegedly removed upon nv's insistence
 
Here's comparison shots from Hellgate: London DX9 I took on HD3850 512MB, the ones with "NV" in the name are with 3DAnalyze faking the Vendor / Device ID to match 9800GTX
The differences in the scene are due the fact it randomizes some of the scene apparently on each load
(click for full size)
NV

ATI


NV

ATI
 
I can remember Splinter Cell at the time of NV4x/G7x - the game didn't use SM3.0 on SM3.0 compatible cards - it was enabled only if the card supported HW FP16 texture filtering. FP16 texture filtering wasn't in SM3.0 specs, it was kind a nVidia's exclusive feature at that time.
 
Davros said:
kaotik what point are you trying to make
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That at least Hellgate: London is using "dirty tricks", in other words, your graphics cards vendor decide if you can use PCF on shadows or not, not if your card supports or doesn't support it.
 
What's a "dirty trick"? Providing better image quality even if it's not in the concurrent DX spec? Or trying to unfairly give advantage to some hw-sponsor of a game? Or just being a bit careless when porting a game from console?


What about using A2R10G10B10 vs A16R16G16B16 formats depending on which vendor id is present? Cheat/Dirty Trick or nice feature to improve IQ on one hw?
 
CarstenS said:
What's a "dirty trick"? Providing better image quality even if it's not in the concurrent DX spec? Or trying to unfairly give advantage to some hw-sponsor of a game? Or just being a bit careless when porting a game from console?


What about using A2R10G10B10 vs A16R16G16B16 formats depending on which vendor id is present? Cheat/Dirty Trick or nice feature to improve IQ on one hw?
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I think of "dirty trick" as giving only one vendor features, while the other is capable of the same features too, if only one can do feature x using that isn't a problem, but if both can do it and only one gets to do it, it's "dirty trick"
 
were any of these dirty tricks favoring ATI cards?
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Truform support?

NV made a bunch of noise about some game (that I can't immediately remember the name of) using AA shader resolve.
 
hoom said:
Truform support?

NV made a bunch of noise about some game (that I can't immediately remember the name of) using AA shader resolve.
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Call of Juarez I think?
But while it could be seen as dirty in one way, both can still do it / use it. Favouring one performance wise is one thing, declining one from using features it supports is another.

Truform support isn't "dirty trick" either, it would be if nVidia could have used N-Patches but game(s) didn't allow it, but they didn't. One title supported RT-Patches for nVidia btw (Serious Sam or Serious Sam 2 I think), too bad RT-Patches were supported for about 1 driver release, and then removed due lackluster performance
 
Kaotik said:
I think of "dirty trick" as giving only one vendor features, while the other is capable of the same features too, if only one can do feature x using that isn't a problem, but if both can do it and only one gets to do it, it's "dirty trick"
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So, forcing GPU A to use FP16-Formats while letting GPU B use A2RGB10 is a dirty trick when both can use both formats technically?

But on whom exactly is the trick dirty? :) One gets noticeably worse IQ, but OTOH noticeably more Fps. :)
 
Scali said:
If you go back as far as the GeForce FX series... maybe :)
I mean, games like Half Life 2 would run in PS1.4-mode on FX by default, and PS2.0 on Radeons.
However, turning PS2.0 on with FX cards wasn't really doing them any favours, speedwise anyway :)
Click to expand...
I remember that one could hack HL2 to run in DX9 mode on FX chips but as you said it was awfully slow. It was also possible to force it to use 16bit shaders instead of 32 (ati used 24bit for everything) and speed was pretty much 2x as good as 32bit and it looked and performed nearly as good as DX8 mode. Rarely people saw any artifacts.

official explanation was something like they found some shaders weren't giving as good results as 24/32 bit ones and as 32bit was only option on NV and was about half the speed of 16bit they just disabled DX9 entirely for FX series. Though I remember AMD sponsoring Valve with about 20% of entire HL2 development budget, that might have had some effect on it aswell.

http://club.cdfreaks.com/f3/half-life-2-nvidia-performance-tweak-118243/

I did that on my ancient FX5600Ultra and HL2 was very much playable in DX9 mode.
 
hoho said:
official explanation was something like they found some shaders weren't giving as good results as 24/32 bit ones and as 32bit was only option on NV and was about half the speed of 16bit they just disabled DX9 entirely for FX series. Though I remember AMD sponsoring Valve with about 20% of entire HL2 development budget, that might have had some effect on it aswell.
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Can I blame nVidia then for now sponsoring Valve and I'm having issues with Edge-Detect AA in Source engine games?
 
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