Did Bush serve?

[epicstruggle]

Where's the "who f'ing cares" button?

Um....want to ask the families of those that have died in Iraq that?

Why would they care how bush served in the national guard. (he did serve.) That would probably be the last thing in their minds if their sons/daughters died in Iraq. Id guess they'd want to know if it was worth it, or maybe was the intel given to the president accurate.

later,
epic

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Where's the "who f'ing cares" button?

Um....want to ask the families of those that have died in Iraq that?

That has to be the most retarded thing I've heard on these boards.

Every family I know (and those I've heard of), have had nothing but POSITIVE things to say about Bush's commitment to the troops. They are SCARED AS HELL of someone like Kerry just votes via poll...

"What? Going to war is popular with the people? I'll vote to go in then!"

(He did.)

"What? There's less popularity of the war with 24/7 news reports of a few casualties every few days? I think it's bad!"

The last thing the "families" want, is some political hack running the war based on opinion polls. They want someone to give all the support possible once the orders are given.

 

[martrox]

http://www.mfso.org/
http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/
http://vaiw.org/vet/index.php
http://truthout.org/docs_03/080603A.shtml
http://www.hackworth.com/

Pretty right wing and blind there, Joe.......

 

[John Reynolds]

I work on a very large Air Force base and I can say that Bush is surprising unpopular these days.

 

[L233]

I work on a very large Air Force base and I can say that Bush is surprising unpopular these days.

Why is that?

 

[London Geezer]

Why is that?

Need to ask...?

 

[John Reynolds]

Why is that?

Probably a combination of factors. A growing sentiment that we as a nation made a mistake going into Iraq, that occupying that country is costing more and lasting longer than we expected and that if we do pull our this summer we're liable to have created a huge mess. That our justification for attacking has become more suspect as the months go by and still no hard, irrefutable proof of WMD and/or ties with terrorist organizations. And, sad to say, probably the worst offense is the way in which Bush has cut military benefits for those serving and retirees.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Pretty right wing and blind there, Joe.......

Not nearly right wing enough to balance the liberal sentiment that would start a thread like this.

 

[RussSchultz]

Why is that?

if we do pull our [sic] this summer we're liable to have created a huge mess.

Where does this common misperception come from?

We're not pulling out--we're busy rotating troops in. We're transitioning soveriegnity to Iraq in June, but our troops are going to stay for the forseable future.

 

[digitalwanderer]

I work on a very large Air Force base and I can say that Bush is surprising unpopular these days.

You work at an Air Force base? So you're saying that Bush is unpopular among the military personal you know?

I haven't heard that from many people, please tell more.

 

[John Reynolds]

Where does this common misperception come from?

We're not pulling out--we're busy rotating troops in. We're transitioning soveriegnity to Iraq in June, but our troops are going to stay for the forseable future.

Why is it automatically a misperception? Assumption, possibly yes.

 

[martrox]

Not nearly right wing enough to balance the liberal sentiment that would start a thread like this.

Hmmmmm...... a true believer....and an avid viewer of Fox News network?

 

[RussSchultz]

Why is it automatically a misperception? Assumption, possibly yes.

Because its not what's been reported, stated, intended, etc?

 

[Joe DeFuria]

mmmmm...... a true believer....and an avid viewer of Fox News network?

No, I'm a "viewer" of all networks from time to time. Not just CNN and the NY Times...or Michael Moore.

 

[Natoma]

Why is it automatically a misperception? Assumption, possibly yes.

Because its not what's been reported, stated, intended, etc?

It hasn't been reported, stated, intended by us. But the people who are probably going to take over, i.e. the Sunni majority, don't want us there by any stretch of the imagination, and have voiced their powerful opposition to our presence in Iraq. Can you see us staying in Iraq if the new, democratically elected leadership of Iraq is telling us to get out?

It'd be difficult to do so imo.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

It hasn't been reported, stated, intended by us. But the people who are probably going to take over, i.e. the Sunni majority, don't want us there by any stretch of the imagination, and have voiced their powerful opposition to our presence in Iraq.

Have they voiced opposition specifically to our military presence? Or our presence in "transistioning" the government.

Can you see us staying in Iraq if the new, democratically elected leadership of Iraq is telling us to get out?

That's really too hypothetical a question to answer, that would depend on lots of circumstances, namely, at the time Iraq takes over leadership, what's the current security situation look like?

 

[Natoma]

It hasn't been reported, stated, intended by us. But the people who are probably going to take over, i.e. the Sunni majority, don't want us there by any stretch of the imagination, and have voiced their powerful opposition to our presence in Iraq.

Have they voiced opposition specifically to our military presence? Or our presence in "transistioning" the government.

Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, who right now is Iraq's most powerful religious-political leader, has voiced his opposition to our military presence, as well as the transitioning government. He and his millions of supporters have voiced the desire to have a 1-1 vote system, which would put themselves in power, given their numbers.

The United States wants an "electoral college" type system, i.e. regional caucauses, whereby regional delegates are selected, and from those delegates, a new leader. Of course the Sunnis don't want any of this.

Can you see us staying in Iraq if the new, democratically elected leadership of Iraq is telling us to get out?

That's really too hypothetical a question to answer, that would depend on lots of circumstances, namely, at the time Iraq takes over leadership, what's the current security situation look like?

Agreed. But again, if they're telling us to get out, no matter how bad it looks in Iraq, could we really stay without risking open war?

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, who right now is Iraq's most powerful religious-political leader, has voiced his opposition to our military presence, as well as the transitioning government. He and his millions of supporters have voiced the desire to have a 1-1 vote system, which would put themselves in power, given their numbers.

The United States wants an "electoral college" type system, i.e. regional caucauses, whereby regional delegates are selected, and from those delegates, a new leader. Of course the Sunnis don't want any of this.

I'm not convinced they don't want our military presence for the time being....except if they believe that it's our military presence is what is keeping them from setting up what they want.

It is for certain that we will have a military presense there at least until they are governmentally "on their own." At that point...who wants to wager that those iraqis who support the established government will welcome our presense, and those who wish to see s different government will insist we leave?

Agreed. But again, if they're telling us to get out, no matter how bad it looks in Iraq, could we really stay without risking open war?

Yes, I think we could. In fact, I see it the opposite way. Given what happened to Sadam and the last regime, I think it's pretty evident that the new leadership would be the ones not wanting to "risk war."

 

[Natoma]

Yes, but risking war with a despot is far more palatable and politically feasible than risking war against "desert peasants" who want their land for themselves and see us as a colonial occupying power.

Anyway, while I agree with your hypothesis on what will eventually happen politically and militarily wrt our presence in Iraq, it's still a dangerous game to play considering the influence that Al-Qaeda seems to now play in Iraq, as well as the religious hardliners from Iran, and pressure from Turkey in the north.

To make an omelette you have to break some eggs. I just hope that egg doesn't turn out to be us in that region.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Yes, but risking war with a despot is far more palatable and politically feasible than risking war against "desert peasants" who want their land for themselves and see us as a colonial occupying power.

Right...which is why I favor a commander in chief who's not particularly concerned with what's "politically feasible" when it comes to defense.

To make an omelette you have to break some eggs. I just hope that egg doesn't turn out to be us in that region.

Of course.