cpu/heatsink problem.

[zidane1strife]

I've bought a processor that supposedly runs very cool 90nm, athlon 64 3000+. After reading the instructions(which said you had to use a thermal interface material), I went and bought some thermal grease(technician said to only apply a pea size amount in the middle and let the heatsink pressure squeeze it thin.).

Thing is I didn't know the dmned included heatsink already had what seems like a built in thermal interface material. Why would you place drwng diagram instructions on how to mount the included heatsink and ask for thermal interface material[if it's not necessary to add some]?

Anyway, it seems I've now both a bit of grease and the pad/whatevah. I'm not sure what risks are there to leaving this so. Is it wise to leave this so? Should I remove one of the materials(I like the tight fit the pad gives, but the grease is said to be better...)? Is the pressure of the pad going to squeeze the pea shaped grease to thinly and thus outside the cpu/heatsink interphase and into the motherboard? Or should I not worry about this?

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Eekkk! You should not be using both! Pads are meant to change with heat and bond to the heatsink. AMD recommends them because they are easier to apply properly and they don't suffer from thermal pumping. Thermal pumping is when extremes of temperature going up and down, cheap thermal grease can eventually get forced out from between the heastsink and chip because of the small surface area of the chip and high pressure of the heatsink.

However, good quality thermal grease gives a better thermal contact than pads when used properly, and also changes when heated so that it sticks and doesn't get thermally pumped unless you go from refrigerated cold to very hot and back all the time.

So in summary, good grease works better when applied properly, but pads are easier to use. You should not be using both. You should carefully clean off both the heatsink and the chip, and use one or the other.

 

[digitalwanderer]

When they come with a pad already on I just use the pad unless I'm planning to do some serious OCing with it, it's a pain to scrape of and then you have to replane the heatsink.

Besides, it works just about as well as thermal grease if not better because it's easier to install.

(Oh, and you're 'sposed to smear the pea sized bit of thermal paste into a about a hair thick layer evenly over the CPU/GPU....it's a bit of an art form that fat-fingered Digi sucks at but enjoys mucking with. )

 

[hoom]

(...Unless you actually bother to read the instructions on the thermal grease tube )

 

[zidane1strife]

Heh,

I should've checked the net to make sure prior to doing so... but dmnd who'd have thought the instruction manual wouldn't give you a warning about that, nor would the c-usa technician(the regular employees didn't even know what grease was) would forget to mention that(I specifically said what the product was, and what I thought was required.) aad give me some bad advice on how to apply the stuff.

The thermal grease I used is high-quality artic 5.

Anyway, I've checked the web(after the fact) and it seems that it must be scraped and I've to buy some cleaning solution or use alcohol. I'm not sure about doing that, it seems like I could dmg the cpu or heatsink if I attempted such. I'd like to just clean off one of the sides, maybe just using alcohol or something at most, but it's said I must remove all after taking off the heatsink, which again I'd consider risky.

PS Btw, I also turned on the pc, so some will supposedly be perma-stuck to the sink, etc. What's the worst that could happen if I just leave it be? IS it really absolutely necessary to begin scraping everything, and re-apply stuff(likely the grease I ain't buying another pad), aka is this going to dmg my cpu/motherboard if I leave it be?

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Anyway, I've checked the web(after the fact) and it seems that it must be scraped and I've to buy some cleaning solution or use alcohol. I'm not sure about doing that, it seems like I could dmg the cpu or heatsink if I attempted such. I'd like to just clean off one of the sides, maybe just using alcohol or something at most, but it's said I must remove all after taking off the heatsink, which again I'd consider risky.

Just get some isopropyl alcohol. You can get it from an electronics shop, or a music shop, chemist etc. It's a general non-greasy cleaning solution used for cleaning loads of stuff. You can use cotton bud to clean off the CPU, maybe a small scalpel on the heatsink if the pad has hardened.

PS Btw, I also turned on the pc, so some will supposedly be perma-stuck to the sink, etc. What's the worst that could happen if I just leave it be? IS it really absolutely necessary to begin scraping everything, and re-apply stuff(likely the grease I ain't buying another pad), aka is this going to dmg my cpu/motherboard if I leave it be?

Modern CPUs have a very small surface area. You need a good mechanical connection to the heatsink to keep them cool. They heat up very fast and need that heat dissipated. By leaving the old thermal pad, you are preventing the two surfaces from mating properly, maybe with old thermal pad preventing a proper seating alltogether and giving a gap between the HS and CPU.

You have to remember that both pads and thermal compound are designed to chemically change when they get heated up after they are installed. If you break them apart, you *need* to reapply so the chemical reaction can happen to bond the heatsink and cpu together again. That's why you shouldn't use them together - they can't bond to the two metal surfaces if there's a pad or thermal grease in the way.

If you leave things alone, your CPU could overheat, and you are relying on your motherboard's CPU overheating protection. If this doesn't cut in fast enough, your CPU will be damaged. I've even heard of overheating protection saving the CPU as often as it can but then the abused CPU eventually dying because the motherboard protection is meant to save your CPU from failed fans, rather than improperly fitted heatsinks that arn't pulling heat off the CPU.

 

[zidane1strife]

The thermal pad's not old, it's actually new, but I get your point. I've heard that using a plastic card to scrape it is good(q-tips too, but supposedly micro threads could be left behind and interfere.). I actually have some iso-acohol lying around, and I'll try cleaning it some time later(leaving that pc off for now).

Is a plastic card/cred-card the best option? and what should I clean the card with? and for the finishing swipe, what's recommended? I've 3M lens cleaning cloath, would that do?

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Is a plastic card/cred-card the best option? and what should I clean the card with? and for the finishing swipe, what's recommended? I've 3M lens cleaning cloath, would that do?

Yeah, plastic is good as it won't scratch the surface. Wipe with isopropyl or anything else that doesn't leave a residue. I use cotten buds on electronics, and lint-free cloths (like your lens cleaner) on anything that is larger - just mind you don't catch it on anything that might get caught and damaged (like small capacitors). Be careful with the thermal grease as it can spread out all over if as you wipe it up if you are not careful.

 

[zidane1strife]

I'd do this without detaching the cpu from the motherboard, right? I'd only have to take off the heatsink, and clean that somewhere else. About how long should I let it dry/evaporate, before applying new thermal grease.

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

I'd do this without detaching the cpu from the motherboard, right? I'd only have to take off the heatsink, and clean that somewhere else. About how long should I let it dry/evaporate, before applying new thermal grease.

Yes, take the heatsink off, leave the CPU in the socket. Take anti-static precautions. You let both dry until there's no more dampness on chip/heatsink. It should be pretty quick to dry after you've wiped it, it evaporates pretty quickly, a couple of minutes is plenty.

 

[zidane1strife]

Dmn it !!!!

Just tried to take off the heat sink(after loosening up the plastic hinge/aluminum strap-thingie), and it feels like it's glued to the cpu, tried moving it a bit side to side, using a bit of force, and it wont budge, any more force and I risk dmging the motherboard(it bent a little bit on my last try).

There's has to be a trick to it, any clues? tips?

PS (don't worry about dampness I got 95% iso-alcohol pure on my dna-lab kids kit.)

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

Try warming it up by running the machine for a little first. Break the contact with a gentle twisting motion. Just make sure you don't force anything too much.

 

[zidane1strife]

Try warming it up by running the machine for a little first. Break the contact with a gentle twisting motion. Just make sure you don't force anything too much.

Left the machine on for like 10min, temp reading 56C cpu, 36C system. Turned off and plugged it off and tried taking the heatsink, didn't work. I've now disconnected two of the case fans and cpu reading is now 58C, 40C system. How hot does it've to be to be easy to remove? How hot can it go?

 

[digitalwanderer]

You absolutely sure you have the clips free?

 

[zidane1strife]

Yes, they're free. You know they(the metal bar with the clips on the two sides of the heatsink) can go up/down, through the heatsink, about an inch when they're not clipped to the motherboard. I raised'em and all made sure they were not clipped. I even tried turning off the fan in the room in addition to the case fans, only external fan running was the power-supply one(internally the gt's fan and the cpu's fan where running.). The case ran at 60C cpu, 42C system... even with that the heatsink's pretty stuck(even tried applying as much force as possible without bending the motherboard, for about 15-30secs, and it won't come off!!!).

Right now I'm thinking that stressing the system(running an intensive 3d app so that the gt runs at full clockspeed and goes 65C) should raise the temp and ease it up, but I'm not sure how hot the cpu can get without dmg, I'm guessing more heat should help it come off, but I'm not sure about that either.

 

[ZoinKs!]

Maybe try heating it with a hairdrier?

 

[zidane1strife]

Maybe try heating it with a hairdrier?

not sure about that, couldn't that harm the motherboard? And also I'm not sure how hot I should get it to be able to take the heatsink off.

 

[mangrove]

Maybe try heating it with a hairdrier?

not sure about that, couldn't that harm the motherboard? And also I'm not sure how hot I should get it to be able to take the heatsink off.

When some thermal paste gets old, it really hardens, and it is fscking impossible to separate the sink from the cpu. The only method is to keep trying. Twist it gently in both directions, even if it doesn't give keep trying, eventually it will.

This is provided it's not glued with thermal epoxy to the processor -- in that case, you will have to freeze everything and try to use force. I wouldn't do that to my processor but I have done it to my Kyro II when I needed to remove a passive Zalman heat sink... not for the faint of heart.

 

[_xxx_]

If you have no problems, just leave it as it is. It should work. People exaggerate that problematic a bit. If you're not about to OC the hell out of it, you should be just fine.

 

[zidane1strife]

Hmmm, maybe I'll do just that(I'll query cs at artic silver/ecs, just in case...), just leave it be for now.

Thanks guys for the advice, and thanks in advance for any further advice on this problem.