Besides tech since the lack of support it didn't get the art styles that game with the different companies that worked on PS2 full-time as opposed to low end or one off projects ( square, Konami, namco, koei.) Look at this . The first stage of silent hill 2 looks quite nice even with the missing effects/filters. Just goes to show how important art is and varying degree is company puts it to use. Sh2 was what ? 2001 release like shenmue 2?
Could Dreamcast et al handle this/that game/effect? *DC tech retrospective *spawn
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Besides tech since the lack of support it didn't get the art styles that game with the different companies that worked on PS2 full-time as opposed to low end or one off projects ( square, Konami, namco, koei.) Look at this . The first stage of silent hill 2 looks quite nice even with the missing effects/filters. Just goes to show how important art is and varying degree is company puts it to use. Sh2 was what ? 2001 release like shenmue 2?
Yeah to some extend, a lot of things on PS2 are doable on DC. Where the DC though would have probably had a problem, are heavy effects that require a lot of processing, like physics, particles and simulations. SH2's fog is definitely non replicable on DC. The dynamic shadows very likely too.
I think it would work with its hardware fog. It wouldn't look exactly the same, but i think it would work. The shadows would work with hardware shadow volumes, too. They just would be very sharp, but you never know. As far as particles/sims/physics, i think they wouldn't be exactly the same, but it would work if approached the right way. Maybe some dips in fps when applied, but it wouldn't be too bad, haha
Silent Hill 2's fog is a combination of particles and alpha heavy transparencies which also responds to James movement and camera direction. That particular type of fog was specific to the capabilities of the PS2 which had huge amounts of fill rate. Not even the powerful XBOX could replicate it and it looked unconvincing and pretty much boring.
It definitely wouldn't look the same on the DC either. It would have been completely different altogether yes.
Not sure what devs could do to replicate a similar effect tailored to the DC's capabilities and how it would look.
But it is an interesting question.
Another interesting question is, how would DC handle shadows and shadow casting in dark areas? SH2's shadow system was designed around PS2's capabilities and even that didn't look the same on XBOX which had hardware support. That's another area where the DC wouldn't be able to match and not sure even if it has the capabilities to do it or at least do something that is close enough.
Yeah, i know about the fillrate, that's why i said it wouldn't look the same. Though the DC's fog hardware would still look really good! It would probably still have some particle fog, just not so aggressive, or maybe an animated overlay. Since DC had the hardware shadow volumes, I'm sure they'd use that for the indoor flashlight stuff. It would be really sharp and not soft, but it would work.
Of course such basic implementation for fog is doable. I think we did have games that had this kind of implementation. But that's as basic as it can get.
Regarding shadows, interesting to see it in action in an actual real game scenario with global implementation of the shadow system.
Regarding shadows, interesting to see it in action in an actual real game scenario with global implementation of the shadow system.
I don't think it was so basic. When i first saw it, it felt like generational leap in tge effect. It gave it a real tangible volume, imo. Headhunter, lemans, recv, etc all did it really well. As far as shadows that were used to a similar effect, the only thing i can think of is sonic adventure 2's jail bars, but I'm sure there's something else, haha
That kind of fog is a night and day difference between that and Silent Hill 2.
I never said it would be the same, i said it would look good, and give the same feel. The fog on xbox worked, same for the theoretical DC version
Well it would definitely look different since the DC uses per pixel fog/table fog. Someone on discord shared with me some debug shots of segas Rez debug of the fog. You can control density or fog up only distance or foreground or both. Even use it to make colored stripes on the scene that you wouldn't think it's the hardware doing it. So there's definitely more to it , maybe even unexplored effects. I don't think DC he fog is as basic as you think. Just very under utilized despite no affecting performance. There would probably no reason why not do a hybrid approach like sh2 but with less transparent layers mixed with the hw fog.
Also same person showed me a few gifs of more complex use of dreamcast volume modifiers for self shadowing of pretty much all animated models on screen. No particular reason shame shadow stuff as done on sh2 wouldn't be replicated here, I think the hold up is that while volume modifiers are hardware feature on the gpu you still need the CPU to do the math for volume meshes + light direction stuff it has to hand to the gpu to determine what's in or out the volume . But considering a 60 fps sports game did this and was a very late release ( 2001/2002 ) it was just a case of it was getting there before it died prematurely. Volume modifiers can change other parameters according to some docs like materials and even fog settings.
Rez fog debug example:
No fog:
Regular fog mode:
Using per pixel fog in an absurd way:
Volume modifiers for self shadowing in motion:
Does wsb 2k2 use fog for different weather like rain?Well it would definitely look different since the DC uses per pixel fog/table fog. Someone on discord shared with me some debug shots of segas Rez debug of the fog. You can control density or fog up only distance or foreground or both. Even use it to make colored stripes on the scene that you wouldn't think it's the hardware doing it. So there's definitely more to it , maybe even unexplored effects. I don't think DC he fog is as basic as you think. Just very under utilized despite no affecting performance. There would probably no reason why not do a hybrid approach like sh2 but with less transparent layers mixed with the hw fog.
Also same person showed me a few gifs of more complex use of dreamcast volume modifiers for self shadowing of pretty much all animated models on screen. No particular reason shame shadow stuff as done on sh2 wouldn't be replicated here, I think the hold up is that while volume modifiers are hardware feature on the gpu you still need the CPU to do the math for volume meshes + light direction stuff it has to hand to the gpu to determine what's in or out the volume . But considering a 60 fps sports game did this and was a very late release ( 2001/2002 ) it was just a case of it was getting there before it died prematurely. Volume modifiers can change other parameters according to some docs like materials and even fog settings.
Rez fog debug example:
No fog:
Regular fog mode:
Using per pixel fog in an absurd way:
Volume modifiers for self shadowing in motion:
Good to see these implementations. Just a note,I m not discussing DC's ability to have fog. I m sure I ve seen fog in DC games. What I m highlighting though are effects that rely on heavy use of particles, alphas, physics and simulations. DC could certainly have a version of SH2 with fog, but certainly a completely different look and implementation.Well it would definitely look different since the DC uses per pixel fog/table fog. Someone on discord shared with me some debug shots of segas Rez debug of the fog. You can control density or fog up only distance or foreground or both. Even use it to make colored stripes on the scene that you wouldn't think it's the hardware doing it. So there's definitely more to it , maybe even unexplored effects. I don't think DC he fog is as basic as you think. Just very under utilized despite no affecting performance. There would probably no reason why not do a hybrid approach like sh2 but with less transparent layers mixed with the hw fog.
Also same person showed me a few gifs of more complex use of dreamcast volume modifiers for self shadowing of pretty much all animated models on screen. No particular reason shame shadow stuff as done on sh2 wouldn't be replicated here, I think the hold up is that while volume modifiers are hardware feature on the gpu you still need the CPU to do the math for volume meshes + light direction stuff it has to hand to the gpu to determine what's in or out the volume . But considering a 60 fps sports game did this and was a very late release ( 2001/2002 ) it was just a case of it was getting there before it died prematurely. Volume modifiers can change other parameters according to some docs like materials and even fog settings.
Rez fog debug example:
No fog:
Regular fog mode:
Using per pixel fog in an absurd way:
Volume modifiers for self shadowing in motion:
You know , the few times I played this game it was always sunny. So not sure really.
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You know what, that was the same for me. Now i gotta do some research, lol. It's a sports game, so I'm sure it has weather and time of day, lol
Its not just 2 years but 2 years and $100. So the ps2 had a big advantage.
The amout of time that separated the releases was actually only 1 year and 4 months.
so 1year 4months and $100 . Still a large gap.The amout of time that separated the releases was actually only 1 year and 4 months.
Cardassian Bob
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1 year, 3 months and 6 days. Small gap.