Considering an upgrade...

[ScorpionSoul]

It's been quite a while since I've done a major upgrade, and there's a lot of new technology out there (i.e., PCI Express, Dual Core processors, etc) that have come about since my last upgrade (hey, I said it's been a while.. )

So anyway, first is my current setup (items in bold are what I'm considering replacing):

Antec Lanboy case
ASUS K8V-X Mobo
Athlon 64 3400+ @2.2Ghz
ThermalRight SLK-948-U HeatSink
ThermalTake Venus 12 80mm Fan
1GB (2x512) Corsair XMS TwinX Pro PC3200
ATI Radeon X700Pro 256MB AGP
Antec SL450 ATX PSU
Western Digital 74GB Raptor 10K RPM
Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 160GB 7200 RPM
Creative SB Audigy 2 ZS Platinum

Replacements/Upgrades:

SF-561BK Case (had this for close to a year... still in the box, just never got around to moving everything into it yet)
MSI K8NGM2-L Socket 939 Mobo
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ 2x1MB L2 Cache
Kingston HyperX 2GB (2 x 1GB) -- (or should I just grab some more Corsair XMS?)
SAPPHIRE Radeon X1900XTX 512MB PCI Express X16


So first... are there any compatibility issues that I've overlooked?
Second... do you have recommendations for something different/better?
Third... will all these fancy new gadgets need a fancy new PSU to go along with it?
And finally... is any of this stuff due for a good drop in price due to next-gen items coming up soon?

Thanks in advance for all your help!

 

[Blazkowicz]

if you're changing everything, why not get it on socket AM2, that way you don't have to change mobo and ram for the next upgrade (no 4800+ though, only CPUs with 512K per core, but it's not that interesting)

 

[poopypoo]

For modern gaming, that graphics card alone will suffice. You could add another gig of RAM to help keep things snappy, but a new CPU is overkill. Might as well overclock the one you have now (should do reasonably well, 20% minimum with stock HSF) and then wait until it doesn't suffice -- by then, AMD will probably have a new socket out! ;p

Edit: oooohhhhhh NOW i see, you have an AGP slot. *snicker!* just kiddin. well, I'd still lay off the cpu upgrades mself. the pc is plenty fast for everything.

 

[{Sniping}Waste]

I would go AM2 and not 939. All the newer CPUs will go AM2 and not 939. Good DDR2 will be cheaper then DDR.

 

[poopypoo]

only... there's really no need for a new processor, and his old DDR RAM is really quite good. that PC is begging to be overclocked (you even bought the HSF, just never bothered to o/c?), if you ask me. you just need a good overclocking 939 board (i'm not really in the market right now but last i heard this Epox was solid)... and yes, I think the chances are good you'll want a new PSU. I could be wrong though, it depends on how many amps that antec puts out on the +12V. Lately, Antec seems to have had a line of actual Antec quality PSUs and a line of crap.

 

[{Sniping}Waste]

only... there's really no need for a new processor, and his old DDR RAM is really quite good. that PC is begging to be overclocked (you even bought the HSF, just never bothered to o/c?), if you ask me. you just need a good overclocking 939 board (i'm not really in the market right now but last i heard this Epox was solid)... and yes, I think the chances are good you'll want a new PSU. I could be wrong though, it depends on how many amps that antec puts out on the +12V. Lately, Antec seems to have had a line of actual Antec quality PSUs and a line of crap.

Did you read his post? The CPU he has is a 3400+ S754 and not a 939. In the part were he states the parts he is thinking of using, there is new memory listed there. If he is buying new ram then the better way to go is AM@ and it would be cheaper seeing that DDR2 is cheaper then DDR now.

 

[karlotta]

For modern gaming, that graphics card alone will suffice. You could add another gig of RAM to help keep things snappy, but a new CPU is overkill. Might as well overclock the one you have now (should do reasonably well, 20% minimum with stock HSF) and then wait until it doesn't suffice -- by then, AMD will probably have a new socket out! ;p

Edit: oooohhhhhh NOW i see, you have an AGP slot. *snicker!* just kiddin. well, I'd still lay off the cpu upgrades mself. the pc is plenty fast for everything.

your smoking crak. That sett up cant run highres AA with any new game that has a strong light engine. I guess if he was using a 17in CRt and played at 800/600.....
Sack the whole thang. AM2 socket should last awhile.

 

[zsouthboy]

Your power supply is fine.


Keep the DDR you have, and add another 2 x 512 megs.
Don't bother with AM2, you don't need it vs. what you are looking for.
I have no experience with that motherboard, how do reviews look for it?


Sell the 3400 and mobo and put that into your new CPU and mobo.

 

[Mize]

Any reason nobody is pushing Core 2 Duo here??

 

[Bobbler]

Any reason nobody is pushing Core 2 Duo here??

No idea... but that seems like a decent solution also!

I'd say go either AM2 AMD route or look into a Conroe. Either would be pretty snazzy... Conroe especially at this point.

 

[Mize]

If I were on a tight budget I'd go 939 x2 and overclock the snot out of it (read: Opteron). 939 boards are a bit cheaper than AM2 and you might be able to use the existing RAM though I'd prefer 2x1GB over 4x512MB to get to 2GB. Do you want crossfire?

If money were no object Conroe is the way to go today, but, again, buy low and overclock as those puppies fly.

 

[Maintank]

If you dont care about your next upgrade, you can keep your ram or buy another GB of it and get a S939. The performance difference between AM2 and S939 is nill but AM2 requires you to buy all new ram.

 

[Cartoon Corpse]

sort of a 'little brother' to my latest rig.

antec p180 (or 190?), thermaltake 680W, fx60 64bit dual core @2.6Gz per, 150G raptor, x1900xtx, asus a8n deluxe sli muscleboard or something or other, 2G DDR corsair with heat thingy, coolermaster liquid cooling.

i seem to have forgotten some of the numbers and stuff. that stuff doesn't stick in my head (guess since i don't deal with it every day).

anyway sounds like a nice rig, probably a lot cheaper than mine too!

 

[SugarCoat]

Only thing that would scare me away from recommending AM2 is we're really on the verge of moving into DDR3 system ram so i really have to question how good the upgradability will be. 939 was great, lasted a long time, but that was due in no small part to the fact that DDR2 was, and still is, a total junk heap in terms of latency timing. DDR3 on the otherhand is not only an improvement over DDR2 but its an improvement over DDR1 and it will have clock speeds up to 1000MHz so both AMD and obviously intel will leap into that in a second.

Investing in a nice core duo/quadro proc might be the best route, then if DDR3 proved to be some amazing feat of engineering you can salvage your proc at least, where as AM2 the whole thing is junked. Technically i believe the pin count of DDR2 and DDR3 is suppose to be the same, but something tells me there will still be compatability problems with AM2 socket boards even though the memory controller is onboard the CPU. The fact that i havent seen one word from AMD saying that the chipset is DDR3 ready doesnt offer much comfort.

Its a can of worms but essentially you have 3 options.

AM2, take a chance you'll have a long lasting upgrade path.
939, cheapest route (but not by much), dead end tech in terms of socket.
Intel Core Duo/Quadro and a good 975X board. Best performing, problably the most expensive but i doubt by much.

Have some fun, go to newegg and start picking stuff within your budget, make a few fantasy builds and paste them here.

 

[{Sniping}Waste]

Only thing that would scare me away from recommending AM2 is we're really on the verge of moving into DDR3 system ram so i really have to question how good the upgradability will be. 939 was great, lasted a long time, but that was due in no small part to the fact that DDR2 was, and still is, a total junk heap in terms of latency timing. DDR3 on the otherhand is not only an improvement over DDR2 but its an improvement over DDR1 and it will have clock speeds up to 1000MHz so both AMD and obviously intel will leap into that in a second.

Investing in a nice core duo/quadro proc might be the best route, then if DDR3 proved to be some amazing feat of engineering you can salvage your proc at least, where as AM2 the whole thing is junked. Technically i believe the pin count of DDR2 and DDR3 is suppose to be the same, but something tells me there will still be compatability problems with AM2 socket boards even though the memory controller is onboard the CPU. The fact that i havent seen one word from AMD saying that the chipset is DDR3 ready doesnt offer much comfort.

Its a can of worms but essentially you have 3 options.

AM2, take a chance you'll have a long lasting upgrade path.
939, cheapest route (but not by much), dead end tech in terms of socket.
Intel Core Duo/Quadro and a good 975X board. Best performing, problably the most expensive but i doubt by much.

Have some fun, go to newegg and start picking stuff within your budget, make a few fantasy builds and paste them here.

DDR2 is not junk and is better then DDR 1 now. Have you seen the newer dimms using Micron ICs? There are ppl running there DDR2 Micron based at DDR2 900 at cas 3 now and DDR2 1100 cas 4.
From what im hearing, the new K8L will be for AM2 with DDR2 and a new socket thats DDR3 so the AM2 can use the newer cores comming out. I you don't like AM2 because of DDR2 then I guess you can't like Intel socket T(LGA775) for the same reason for using DDR2.

 

[Skrying]

DDR2 is junk really.......... performance only wise. At defaults there's no point at all for it.

DDR2 is not junk and is better then DDR 1 now. Have you seen the newer dimms using Micron ICs? There are ppl running there DDR2 Micron based at DDR2 900 at cas 3 now and DDR2 1100 cas 4.
From what im hearing, the new K8L will be for AM2 with DDR2 and a new socket thats DDR3 so the AM2 can use the newer cores comming out. I you don't like AM2 because of DDR2 then I guess you can't like Intel socket T(LGA775) for the same reason for using DDR2.

You cant compare Intel to AMD in this respect. With Intel a motherboard manufacturer can build a board that uses DDR and DDR2 (Asrock for example has a number of them), it is based on the northbridge. With AMD you are stuck, period, since the memory controller on the CPU only supports DDR2.

 

[poopypoo]

Did you read his post? The CPU he has is a 3400+ S754 and not a 939. In the part were he states the parts he is thinking of using, there is new memory listed there. If he is buying new ram then the better way to go is AM@ and it would be cheaper seeing that DDR2 is cheaper then DDR now.

Oy, of course, you're right, some things never occur to me, like someone having an s754 setup. >_<; Sorry!

So... of course you guys are right, since homes seems to have money burning his pants leg, and he wants to go dualcore, he should just go core duo. If he wants to sve money, though, I'd still prob go s754. I honestly think there's no reason not to use that nice DDR he has, s754 boards are dirt cheap and the odds he'll upgrade again before there's a new socket seem slim. This epox is cheap ias dirt and o/c's well but has no gigabit LAN. There are a few more options on newegg there for s754 boards, but many of them have only 2 DIMM slots which does suck. However, it is a good way to save money. for $50 + gfx card you're back in business.

For the record, on newegg DDR2 doesn't seem any cheaper than DDR -- it's also not more expensive, though, which is nice, since you get DDR533 instead of DDR400 (with negligible performance difference).

karlotta, i'm sorry, but I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I play a hell of a lot of games @ 1680x1050 with 4xAA/8xAF using an s939 A64 3200 o/c to 2.7 Ghz.

 

[SugarCoat]

DDR2 is not junk and is better then DDR 1 now. Have you seen the newer dimms using Micron ICs? There are ppl running there DDR2 Micron based at DDR2 900 at cas 3 now and DDR2 1100 cas 4.
From what im hearing, the new K8L will be for AM2 with DDR2 and a new socket thats DDR3 so the AM2 can use the newer cores comming out. I you don't like AM2 because of DDR2 then I guess you can't like Intel socket T(LGA775) for the same reason for using DDR2.

Why cant i like Conroe? They hid the latency amazingly well. The only reason to not get the better performing system, being a conroe one, would be the longevity of upgrade, i just dont see a bright future for any DDR2 limited systems so the advantage of upgrading is kinda out the window. And for over twice the effective speed of DDR, DDR2 is trash. A system built on good DDR400/500 will still compete right next to one built on DDR2 800/1000 all because the latency is removing the benefit of added bandwidth. Thankfully conroe, and of course the on die memory controller in AMD processors, hides the terrible latency. People will be much more impressed with DDR3.

Intel is also doing a good job with a chipset finally and 975X will at least be good for kentsfield and perhaps, but unlikely, even further. I doubt it though since one of the next upgrades will problably be to the chips front side bus.


Essentially you either get the best system known now, or you take a chance with AM2, get the same performance you were getting, and hope AMD will give you something worth your money in 8-10 months that will best intel. Personally i'd take the former.

 

[Blazkowicz]

sugar, I don't quite understand the fetish you have for DDR3. do you know what is it? it's exactly like DDR2 vs DDR1, or dual channel, a doubling of bandwith while latency stays the same. Same latency if you consider DDR 400 vs DDR2 800 vs DDR3 1600. considering DDR3 will be first something like 1066, it will suck then will get better down the road, like DDR2.

then : DDR2 800 4-4-4-12 might be expensive, but PC3200 2-2-2-5 is expensive as well. sure if you already have 2GB of such DDR1, keep it and use it on s939 or with a conroe.

about the DDR3 CPUs, which'll go on AM3 sockets : it was announced that they'll be compatible with AM2 mobos as well.


that said, I'll side with poopypoo, there's a cheap and great gaming upgrade to be done with a cheap s754 board, slight overclock, graphics card (now with 7900GS, x1900GT, 1950pro etc. we're seeing high end at 200 $/€), and I'll add a stick of 512MB
Or, get a 1GB stick, and you can sell the old mobo + X700 + 512MB to someone who'll only have to add a very cheap sempron to build an already great PC. (your old athlon64 will behave better with two rather than three sticks presumably)

 

[SugarCoat]

DDR Latency > DDR3. Bandwidth is a nice thing to have, DDR3 is simply soon to come and so i would take it into considering for the design of any computer i was going to build to last me 2-3 years.


So you read the DDR3 will infact work in AM2 boards, dont suppose you have a link, would like to confirm.